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cidtothecore

Death of the CID- Fahy style

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I work in GMP and PMIt is killing us! E|veryone is so fed up because of a new thing called PMIT, don't know what it stands for but it represents the death of the CID, poor quality service to the public and creating feelings of mass suicide amongst all ranks and departments. 'Sir' Peter's baby PMIT is poorly thought out and poorly executed. Basically they've merged the Neighbourhood officers with PCSO's and detectives, after splitting them between two or three stations and shoving them all into one big room, where detectives have to discuss rapes, robberies, gang crimes and sensitive intelligence next to PCSO's discussing brew stops. PC's have basically been told they're not good enough and need to be brought up to standard and that the detectives will do that, tutoring them for no extra pay alongside them having to investigate serious crimes, submit huge lengthy prosecution files and Coroners files all because some idiot decided to get rid of training schools and long service tutors. Those same detectives who have no desk to sit at, no computer and no phone in most cases, and have to hot desk with people who need to update crimes or check their ebay bid.

Why don't they get that each police officer or PCSO has a different role to play and have different needs to carry out their job effectively. Why don't they get that investing in initial and ongoing training is a really good idea, how about a training school taught by people with service and experience. How about tutors with experience. How about Sergeants and Inspectors with experience, rather than those with 3 years who've never put a file in because they now have units to interview prisoners mechanically and robotically. How about letting those recruits go for attachments in units such as traffic, CID, Soco to see if anything interests them further then they will strive to shine in those areas and try to join after a few years on the streets. Sound familiar? How about teaching those new recruits how to interview suspects and submit files by giving them tutors who've done it themselves. Not rocket science.

In industry this policy PMIt would be the equivalent of putting office admin staff and call takers into a warehouse with the packers where no one can achieve anything productive because even though they all work for the same company, they have different needs to carry out their role, such as chairs, desks, phones and computers to take orders and deal with customers, or shelves to stack things on and machinery to move things round. Anyone who came up with the idea of integrating them would be sacked!

It's all a load of crap and even the Manchester Evening News have carried it in their paper today 15.03.2013 because it's such a joke.

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When I joined the force, CID sat in our sub station and any crimes of a higher value went to them. They only worked day shift and we did the initial investigation and then passed it on, this included rapes etc. it worked very well and if we wanted help the DC would come out with the PC but the PC kept the job, I enjoyed it.

Officers with 3 years have not submitted a file..... Surely that can't be right?

It is probably to give the impression that there are more officers on Neighbourhood teams by placing CID on the teams. I hope you are bringing your car with you as PCSOs need their own vehicle!!

Are they going to rename you Neighbourhood CID, response now called Neighbourhood policing teams & community are called Neighbourhood response teams ....... It is great this hood winking the public..... They are not daft, bosses are!!!

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Maybe the author of the PMIT model was thinking ahead of the game, who knows ?

Windsor 2 did suggest certain officers not using their warranted powers regularly would take a drop in pay.

By amalgamating you all into one office it woud go some way to support the arguement that your all the same, it may act as a

form of protection for lets say the CID officers who may have been in the sights of the Winsor 2 pay cut cull.

Just a thought

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Maybe the author of the PMIT model was thinking ahead of the game, who knows ?

Windsor 2 did suggest certain officers not using their warranted powers regularly would take a drop in pay.

By amalgamating you all into one office it woud go some way to support the arguement that your all the same, it may act as a

form of protection for lets say the CID officers who may have been in the sights of the Winsor 2 pay cut cull.

Just a thought

That may be true but it is just another example of how Winsor is degrading the service that police give to the public. The public are the losers.

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Officers with 3 years have not submitted a file..... Surely that can't be right?

It is right someone who I was the training officer for in the last few months of probation had less than 15 arrests and had never been the officer in the case for anything.As she had been signed up prior to my arrival I was told to leave it.15 months elapsed and she had only 10 more arrests again never the officer in the case.

Now for the last 4 and a half years she has worked multi agency and has the temerity to look down on us 'old timers' who do the same role.

Sorry its off topic but this person has been taking the p1ss for 8 years and it proper gets my goat!

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Sounds abysmal this joined up working approach. Bottom line is the public lose out.

My advice. Record everything and cover your own back. It's the only way forward.

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CIDtothecore you are so right.

Sir Peter Fahy was and is responsible for some great achievements. His main achievement was the complete destruction of Police moral within the Greater Manchester Police. I was so glad to leave. The force has created one where, you have to look very hard for someone who has under 5 years service who is able to write their own statement or put together a prosecution file. As the main writer has said they have other officers to do that.

Many years ago the GMP classified crimes from Cat. “A” through “B” “C” to Cat “D”. A being the highest cat cases Murder, Armed Robbery, Rape etc.

The CID were tasked all Crimes of Cat “A” and “C” and a Senior detective would decide who would pick up Cat “C” and the uniform officer dealt with all Cat “D”. It took about two years before Uniform were reporting Cat B, C and D.

A CID officer who was speaking up, or falling foul of the system would be told, “If you don’t like it you can always wear a big hat” Having said that the co operation between the ranks of D/S and D/C with uniform was usual good. The problem came with the CID Senior officers who regarded themselves, as God, untouchable. Believe me they were as I reported one

And was the only one to suffer, hence my Federation ties.

Fahy has achieved nothing in the GMP except elitism in his officers, and talked the Police Committee into building a New Custom Build Police Headquarters for near to £50 million. He followed on the work of Wilmott and Todd as he continued and entered into a new frenzy of new buildings, knocking down perfectly good serviceable stations, removed canteens, removed, most Police Clubs. He has destroyed the Traffic Dept., decimated the Uniform Dept., and is now about the crucify the CID and utterly and completely destroy what little moral was left. He also re classified Police Injury Pensions, robbing many injured officers of their Band B, C, or D Pensions. Each Injured officer had to fight an individual battle with his beloved HR dept., even though his actions had been held to be unlawful in court.

I am so glad that I got my time in and was able to get out before he managed to complete the task. With the present crop of Police Chief Officers, like Fahy, the Police Service does not need any enemies

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I transferred out of GMP 4 years ago, what a wise move that was, I still speak to GMP officers and I have never known moral so low, people are burning up quickly, section officers running from job to job with minimal resources on the front line.

PMIT was sold to the public as putting more staff into their neighbourhood, it stikes me that it is just another way of cooking the books so people think there are more officers looking after their area.

The CID officers will still deal with the serious offences on the area exactly as they did before.

We all know that money is tight, the whole country is suffering, just talk the truth and stand up for your staff Mr F.

Dogs

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Fond memories of Mr Fahy in West Mids. He put CID in uniform when he was a Chief Super.....

They made that not work - it lasted about a month...

Easier to do, I suppose when you are CC!

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I take it fahy has never worked in cid. That would explain his total lack of understanding about the role and how best it functions.

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We all have to wake up and smell the coffee.This is just another example of being down graded.HMG Winsor Hutton seem to think we have become too big for our boots.They want us to be on a par with the private security industry.Putting CID in with the PCSOs is another symbolic example of this.

Those that I still see who are pissed on the job and think they are above an average citizen will face the biggest shock when it all kicks in.

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Being a member of the public as well as a police officer I really fear for the future of this country.

I honestly think we have had the best police force in the world but with the changes and cuts we're all facing it's having, and going to have, a huge effect.

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S18 file......... I deal with all my own jobs, assaults, unlawful production, robberies, etc....... And I am a Neighbourhood officer. CID are never about when needed so I don't bother asking I just deal with it. The only difference in all these jobs is the charge but all my jobs are thoroughly investigated.

I don't really see the big deal. CID don't need to work in pairs, each officer has specialised knowledge and can get on with it, just like response officers, by themselves.

Are management not getting more out of these officers as they are now in an area and have to deal with what is thrown at them. The days of spending months on one file, have gone.

The one thing I have noticed is that a lot of old Inspectors who worked on response teams and could never get hold of CID are now Chief Insp. or Supers and they are now gunning for CID in our Force. They are listening into the radio and if

CID don't respond when shouted,they shout up and guess what CID attend.....it is funny!!

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S18 file......... I deal with all my own jobs, assaults, unlawful production, robberies, etc....... And I am a Neighbourhood officer. CID are never about when needed so I don't bother asking I just deal with it. The only difference in all these jobs is the charge but all my jobs are thoroughly investigated.

I don't really see the big deal. CID don't need to work in pairs, each officer has specialised knowledge and can get on with it, just like response officers, by themselves.

Are management not getting more out of these officers as they are now in an area and have to deal with what is thrown at them. The days of spending months on one file, have gone.

The one thing I have noticed is that a lot of old Inspectors who worked on response teams and could never get hold of CID are now Chief Insp. or Supers and they are now gunning for CID in our Force. They are listening into the radio and if

CID don't respond when shouted,they shout up and guess what CID attend.....it is funny!!

Sorry? A Neighbourhood officer mocking CID for not taking jobs from the radio? You are having a laugh...

As for the rest of your post, hey-ho. Mock CID all you want mate, you are going down the same pan as we are.

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S18 file......... I deal with all my own jobs, assaults, unlawful production, robberies, etc....... And I am a Neighbourhood officer. CID are never about when needed so I don't bother asking I just deal with it. The only difference in all these jobs is the charge but all my jobs are thoroughly investigated.

I don't really see the big deal. CID don't need to work in pairs, each officer has specialised knowledge and can get on with it, just like response officers, by themselves.

Are management not getting more out of these officers as they are now in an area and have to deal with what is thrown at them. The days of spending months on one file, have gone.

The one thing I have noticed is that a lot of old Inspectors who worked on response teams and could never get hold of CID are now Chief Insp. or Supers and they are now gunning for CID in our Force. They are listening into the radio and if

CID don't respond when shouted,they shout up and guess what CID attend.....it is funny!!

At best this is naive.

1- Sometimes a complex fraud/ serious assault/ complex drugs supply can take months. Plus all the grief that follows from the CPS/ defence/ witnesses etc... You cant deal with these jobs in one day. This isn't 'The Bill.'

2- You try investigating a rape/ stabbing on your own where there are huge amounts of enquiries. Good luck with that one.

3- Generally the level of jobs at CID level attract alot of senior attention which can cause stress.

4- CID in general can be the back stop of the force for things other than prisoners including all the safeguarding issues and vulnerable victims.

Oh and there is the constant messing around of your private life (which you dont get as bad within other depts).

PS- You wont catch me slagging off SNT/ response like this. I know how busy you all are and how difficult your jobs are.

Have you considered doing your ICIDP if you feel it is easy. Trust me it is not.

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