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Reasonable Man

Resident Members
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Everything posted by Reasonable Man

  1. Reasonable Man

    A Recovery continues

    It has been explained but you don't want to know about anything that doesn't fit with your agenda. The Full Facts link by BR puts it succinctly - the accounts have been signed off for the last 9 years. There are some errors, but it would be suspicious if every penny of a multi billion Euro budget was accounted for and spent exactly according to the rules. When I looked previously I found that applying the same rules to the UK budget showed more money was 'missing' from the Westminster coffers than the Brussels ones. And the 'absolute corrupt' phrase is rather wearing and absolutely inaccurate. If the EU was 'absolutely' corrupt then it wouldn't be <4% of the money misspent, it would be 100% of the budget stolen. And every MEP, including Farage and the other UKIP members all 'absolutely' corruptly taking their share.
  2. Reasonable Man

    Judges rule on Brexit

    I hope that my MP votes in Parliament on this, and all other matters the way he believes is best for the country. That's what I want from my MP. I cannot imagine that someone would vote in a general election for the candidate who agreed with them on one single issue. I would read the manifestos and about the values and beliefs of the individuals. Imagine having several candidates who believe remaining in the EU is the best option with the only candidate wanting to leave being from the BNP. Does anyone really think that the BNP would get in just because of the EU vote?
  3. Reasonable Man

    A Recovery continues

    I don't see the point of the last post. You start talking about pure conjecture, no one can know the future, the experts get it wrong, the crystal ball hasn't been invented yet. Then quote John Brennan as though he is an expert. By your own argument he can't know the future, he hasn't got a crystal ball, his opinion is pure conjecture and he only has a 2% chance of being right. Trump may become the best President the USA ever had.
  4. Reasonable Man

    A Recovery continues

    Well said Z; and I owe myself another mince pie. Of course the key question is will the rest of the world want to trade with us? And if they do will it be on as favourable terms as we currently have within the EU?
  5. Reasonable Man

    A Recovery continues

    This is just positioning before the main event. Article 50 and actual Brexit will slam us all economically. And that will probably take beyond my lifetime to recover from. The Office for Budget Responsibility has calculated that the lower migration, slower productivity growth and higher inflation likely to be caused by Brexit will cost us £59bn from the public finances over the next five years. The Institute for Fiscal Studies says Brexit would hit productivity and wage growth, and the falling pound would drive up inflation. Brexit would cause the biggest pay squeeze in Britain for 70 years – more than a decade without real earnings growth. A report by the Centre for Economics and Business Research found that every major wealth-creating sector would be hit if the UK left the single market. So I don't know where the NHS will get its extra £350M a week from.
  6. Reasonable Man

    Judges rule on Brexit

    I'll just accept that some are unconsciously bias to unconscious bias and move on.
  7. Reasonable Man

    Judges rule on Brexit

    That is not a bias. That is a rational and conscious fear or acknowledgment of danger based on learning and experience. If you don't understand something it is better to belittle and pour scorn on it. Maybe an unconscious bias against academics? Of course you will say that your learning and experience has shown you that all academics are rubbish, like you say all politicians are corrupt, all EU supporters are fools, all surveys are not worth the paper they are written on ... Indeed anyone not in agreement with you gets put in a box and ridiculed in some way.
  8. Reasonable Man

    Judges rule on Brexit

    It does apply to everyone and every opinion. If you do not have unconscious bias then you are not human. ERNIE has no unconscious bias because it is a machine.
  9. Reasonable Man

    Judges rule on Brexit

    If you knew about it then it wouldn't be unconscious. We all have unconscious bias - it is a natural human condition.
  10. Reasonable Man

    Judges rule on Brexit

    those who understand conscious and unconscious bias.
  11. Reasonable Man

    Judges rule on Brexit

    Let us be honest. Only 38% of the electorate and 27% of the population of the U.K. voted to leave. So while 17.5 million voted to leave 46.8 million didn't.
  12. Reasonable Man

    Judges rule on Brexit

    This Remainer knew exactly what the facts were. Vote remain for more of the same or vote to leave for uncertainty and a vain hope that it would be better. For me 'the same' wasn't too bad and the uncertainty too uncertain. As for the German car manufacturers wanting the UK market, I'm sure they do but they won't go bust without us but they can't make their trade deals with us, nor can Germany. They are part of the EU so it will have to be a UK - EU deal. Spain, Italy, Belgium etc will be part of the negotiations and won't just roll over for good deals for those companies. Spain will be after equally good deals for Seat, Italy for Fiat etc.
  13. Reasonable Man

    Judges rule on Brexit

    So I'm just being like the fortune telling Brexiteers only I predict an economic downturn rather than the land of milk and honey where the rest of the world elbows each other out of the way fighting to hand the UK the best deals they can offer us.
  14. Reasonable Man

    Judges rule on Brexit

    During the campaign I used to get irritated at how the Brexiteers used this figure when it never cost us that much. Now it's no longer a debating issue I, too, find it hilarious that anyone thinks we will ever see any of that money in real terms. Sure we won't have to write that cheque but financial cost of everything else will swallow that up, and then some.
  15. Reasonable Man

    Judges rule on Brexit

    I don't know it because none of us knows what Brexit will look like, not even you. This is the point that many of us are making. You who voted to leave did not know what you were voting for. I honestly believe that some elements of what I put will be part of the deal. Everyone has a view of what they think it may be but no one knows and those who voted to leave either don't care what it mean for the country or just 'hope' that it will be better. And as Rich Hall said about Trump voters, 'hope falls somewhere between good intent and a rain dance.'
  16. Reasonable Man

    Judges rule on Brexit

    What will those who voted to leave say though when the best deal for Brexit is struck and we are left with something that looks very much like we have at the moment? We negotiate free movement of goods and services with the EU - so that means we have to comply with their rules and regulations on safety standards, procurement etc. To have that we keep the free movement of people to and from the EU. Hand in hand with such a trade agreement we agree to retain the agriculture and fishing policies we currently have. We wish to retain the benefits of Schengen, Europol, EAW so our criminal laws must align with European ones. We remain inextricably linked militarily through NATO and the UN. The significant changes are - it no longer costs us £350M a week gross £280M net. We get a huge reduction on full membership cost to only £250M a week gross (and net, because we get no rebate or payments as we are not full members). We have no representation at the Parliament or on any of the committees so have no influence over spending, legislation, regulations, directives etc. I believe I will be hearing, 'THAT'S NOT WHAT I VOTED FOR. VOTED TO LEAVE.'
  17. Reasonable Man

    Facebook & other social media

    You can't necessarily avoid being 'out there' even without having a social media account. People who know me and have taken photos of me at events have tagged it to two other people with the same name as me who live in the same area. Even though I have no such account photos of me can be found linked to my name. I've also wondered about the conversations those 'Reasonable Mans' have had with their nearest and dearest about why they were at those events when they claimed to be elsewhere [emoji1][emoji51][emoji13] Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  18. Reasonable Man

    Judges rule on Brexit

    Is that because, by deduction, the other two must have been Brexiteers? Most impartial to have a panel of judges making a ruling on how we leave the EU being weighted towards leaving. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  19. Reasonable Man

    Judges rule on Brexit

    I can't believe that anyone is surprised that the Remainers continue to argue their points, just the same as the Brexiteers would have had the outcome been the other way around. In a country that supports free speech it should be applauded that people continue debate. With the vote a virtual dead heat there are enough people with the opposing view to have informed (and ill informed) discussions about it. It's not like it was the outcome of the Gibraltar referendum with 98.5% voting no. Those voting yes knew they had no voice so no point in doing anything other than accepting such an overwhelming outcome. Everyone is entitled to spout their opinion in this free country, and should be allowed to do so without being accused of being childish, stamping their feet, or bad losers. If people believe that there should be no further debate following a referendum then the 2016 one shouldn't have been held as those anti EU people should have accepted the previous one where the public voted to join. Everyone should have just shut up and put up with it. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  20. Reasonable Man

    Judges rule on Brexit

    How about -I go on holiday every year to the same place and it's okay but the place is getting a bit run down and I'm wondering if it's worth the money. A travel agent says vote for me and I'll get you a better holiday. Where? Don't know yet, not until you've signed up. How much? Same answer. What sort of holiday? Winter sun? Summer beach? Skiing? Don't worry about that. Just commit yourself to us and we'll give you a better holiday than the one you've got. But will it be suitable for my kids? Don't know. Until you commit yourself to us we can't start looking. So I may not get a beach holiday? Maybe not but don't worry. Just hope that it will be what you want. What if I can't afford it? Just hope that you can. Even if you can't it will be better than what you've got now. Hmmm. Do I stick with my guaranteed holiday that I'm okay with or sign up for something that could be worse and unaffordable? Or even the same holiday I've got now but it costs me more? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  21. Reasonable Man

    Judges rule on Brexit

    The point is despite the vote and that we cancel our membership that doesn't mean we will sever every tie with our European neighbours. The vote was like saying our car is ropey, do we try to fix it or get a replacement? Brexiteers say get a replacement. What will the replacement be? Doesn't matter you're better off with a replacement. But I've got four kids so will there be room for them? Be patriotic, just get a replacement. You'll be better off. Is it a new car or second hand? Doesn't matter, it will be better than what you've got now. But my current car can be fixed for a couple of hundred quid and it's only got 50,000 miles on the clock. Will the replacement have less mileage? Will it be newer? My grandfather didn't fight the Germans for you just to keep that old car. Just have a replacement. Have you seen the replacement? No. How much will it cost? Don't know. So you can't tell me anything about this replacement but expect me to agree to it? Yes. You will be much better off. How? Because you won't be tied to that old car that needs fixing. But it's served me quite well and at least I know what I've got. The replacement may be too small and in worse condition than the one I've got. You just have hope that it will be better. I believe it will be. Why can't you tell me anything about it? Colour? Engine size? Number of seats? How much it will cost? Until you agree to having a replacement we can't start to look around for it. So I agree to a replacement but it may be older, smaller, more mileage and cost more to run than the one I've got now? Well yes. But at least you will have made your own decision to have a replacement. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  22. Reasonable Man

    Judges rule on Brexit

    So if it was possible to see the deal before the vote and the deal was we leave with:the retention of the free movement of people; a watered down member of the single market (less favourable than now because we are not full members); We have to pay 75% of what we pay now; No voting rights on any laws or regulations; We have to comply with all those laws and regulations; No longer part of the European Arrest Warrant - so people suspected of crimes in the UK cannot be simply arrested in the EU and returned. Then you would vote for that because it would men we were out? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  23. Reasonable Man

    Judges rule on Brexit

    So you think people will vote in a general election based solely on whether the candidate is pro Brexit or not? No other issues or content of their manifesto matters? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  24. Reasonable Man

    Judges rule on Brexit

    It could be that although 52% of the whole electorate voted to leave when broken down into constituencies in 326 there were more Remainers. So MPs could vote with their constituents and the overall vote would be to remain. Also, now we have more knowledge then shouldn't the MPs seek the views of their constituents at the time of their vote? Which might be different from what it was at the time of the referendum.
  25. Reasonable Man

    Judges rule on Brexit

    Wouldn't it be ironic if the Brexiteers have to take this to the European court to force the Government to leave?