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Reasonable Man

Resident Members
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Everything posted by Reasonable Man

  1. Reasonable Man

    Direct entry as Inspector.

    It's the bias against the idea and those who will join as Inspectors that I don't understand. Just to condemn a whole raft of people as going to be incapable before they've even had the chance prove or disprove that shows a very closed mind - unconscious bias I believe [emoji57] Reminds me of a situation I may have told on here before of a youngish Inspector - early thirties- who was respected by his troops. Made a decision, stuck by it. Rolled in the gutter with a drunk when required. After a few months it was discovered that he was on the accelerated promotion scheme [emoji33][emoji33] Suddenly several old sweats had no respect for him. Complete bias the same as I hear about direct entry people. Some will not be up to the job, some will be adequate and stay at that rank for a long time, some will get promoted further. Some will be excellent and others not - just like those promoted through the existing system. It's sad though that there are those waiting and willing for those people to mess up and will delighted to shout about the 'proof' that it was a rubbish idea from the start. We complain when the press and public allege corruption and racism across the whole police service based on one or two bad apples but are quick to do the same internally. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  2. Reasonable Man

    Direct entry as Inspector.

    Or he might be very good at all those decisions. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  3. Reasonable Man

    Direct entry as Inspector.

    Well said HMS. The core of your post is - most PCs don't know what an Insp does. Even less the ranks above that. I was talking to a Supt the other day who was struggling with telling his officers to go home on time and not work on to make the job work - for their health and wellness. While he was working 10-12 hours a day five days a week to get the job done. Easy to criticise someone for sitting in an office. In these days of austerity they really are not going to pay someone £50k + for doing nothing. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  4. Reasonable Man

    Scottish Police Numbers examination

    Can't see the problem. It's a maths exam not an arithmetic test. If you don't know your maths you can't pass no matter how many calculators you have. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  5. Reasonable Man

    Direct entry as Inspector.

    The ones who respected anyone, man or woman, because of their ability to do the job they were doing were not mysogonists. I meant the ones who would not respect very competent supervisors just because they were women. Just like there are those who refuse to respect supervisors who are graduate entrants or on an accelerated promotion scheme. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  6. Reasonable Man

    Direct entry as Inspector.

    Didn't the old guard say that about police women? Of course, some mysogonistic dinosaurs still do. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  7. Reasonable Man

    Deliberately scratched car and racial abuse

    Two separate offences. Criminal Damage and probably Racially Aggravated Sec 4a, Public Order Act. But with the exact detail of what he said and did to her it could be anything from not a crime at all to threats to kill. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  8. Reasonable Man

    How has the Police changed you as a person?

    I can't really say. I suppose as I have spent more than twice as long 'in' as I did out I can't really remember what I thought about things before I was in. I always kept three things to the forefront of my thought process and so, hopefully, behaviour: 1. Friends at the time said joining the police will change you so you want to know us anymore. I made sure that was not the case, although moving away from my home town obviously changed things. I lost touch with some but still can have a pint with some old mates who I haven't seen in years; 2. 'You will become all job'. It would have been easy to fall into that with playing sport in police teams, only socialising in police clubs or going out socially with colleagues or police couples. Police social clubs (RIP) were good fun, but also the source/cause of disciplinary procedures and broken marriages so I moved away from those as a main source of entertainment. I also made sure I played my sport in local clubs so mixed with a variety of people - led to one or two awkward situations but also many more benefits; and 3. You will only see the bad in people/communities. This was very important to me. When you spend nearly all your working life dealing with the dregs of society, and the decent people who are their victims, it is easy to think that is a there is. I always checked myself with the fact that this was only a tiny percentage of the town/city/area I policed. The vast majority of people are decent folk who have nothing to do with the dregs of their society, or the police. Sent from me using Witchcraft
  9. Reasonable Man

    Direct Entry...Everything!

    Of course, Dan, there are other views and experiences. I retired with 30 years with a mainly detective career and, as still work in a police force I have not lost touch with modern policing. I have met several accelerated promotion people and overall can't say they were any worse or better than those who went through the long winded route. My first inspector was a graduate entry destined for higher things. He had 6 years service and retired with 32 years service, as an inspector. As for a directly recruited DC, they could only move on to 'higher' things if they pass the exams and evidence the knowledge and experience to move 'up', just the same as any other Constable. As a direct entry detective though they will gain the knowledge, skills and experience of detective work much quicker than PC currently joining. They will not be spending shifts dealing with missing people, cell watches, hospital watch, RTCs, mental health issues etc etc. They will interview many more witnesss, take many more statements, interview many more suspects. I assume they will still have a two year probationary period and at the end of that they will have done more detective work than most patrol/response/neighbourhood officer will do in five or ten years. The question of the next step could be an issue for them though. While in some forces they may allow a DC to be promoted to DS the exams and promotion process has a broader more general policing aspect so they may struggle with some of that. Certainly, unless there is a wholesale change in approach I cannot see a direct entry DC ending up as a Chief Inspector or above and a much broader policing background is required for those roles. In my old force we had civilian investigators who were recruited with not necessarily previous policing experience. Most were retired cops but we had a few who were not and after a year or so you couldn't tell the difference between the ex cops and the others - unfortunately you could tell that many were ex cops due to there inflexible attitude, refusal to do overtime, 'it's not my job mate' ways. Whereas those who saw being an investigator as a career rather than a pension top up were more willing. After a couple of years there was the financial crash and it was decided that we could not afford them any more. Amazing how many of those who moaned at devaluing the police by having civvies as investigators moaned even louder when they left and those cops had to do the work the civvies had been. Sent from me using Witchcraft
  10. Reasonable Man

    5 Word Story (2)

    few and far between, most Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  11. Reasonable Man

    Direct Entry...Everything!

    Well I've been that response officer and the investigator and I think this is all the wrong way around. It would be much better for response officers to have the experience of those specialists who have to pick up the jobs they have started. If someone's role means they will never be taking a statement from a drunk at 3am then why do they need to experience that? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  12. Reasonable Man

    Direct Entry...Everything!

    Nooooo. How on earth can anyone think that a person could ever learn to do one job without ever having down a related one? And no one, other than a police officer has ever had a very big workload stressing then out. No no no. Not NHS staff or teachers or people in the private sector and certainly not social workers. When have you ever heard of a social worker having too many cases to deal with effectively. And a direct entry DC could never learn how to take a statement properly. You have to join as a probationer in uniform, then you just know how to take one. Ask any DC and they will tell you that the statements that find their way into handover packages are just the best ever. It's something to do with being taken at 3am from a drunk or highly emotional witness. Those are always taken by uniform staff as a DC is never working at 3am. And if they go ahead with this crazy idea what next? Maybe civilian SOCOs - how can anyone know how to forensically examine a crime scene unless they have been the one first on the scene and started the investigation? Or maybe comms staff? Ha ha! You could only be a radio operator if you have the experience of being on the receiving end. Crazy ideas. We just HAVE to keep everything just the way it always was. Trying new things just never works. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  13. Reasonable Man

    Judges rule on Brexit

    Good point. Surely we would need less 'manpower' (and womanpower)?There will be fewer laws - when we get rid of all those EU imposed ones; There will be fewer criminals - with a huge cut in immigration and getting rid of all the foreign criminals; We will have British people doing British jobs so huge reduction in Modern Slavery crimes; Without those immigrants taking our jobs there will more employment, which is known to reduce crime.
  14. Reasonable Man

    Senior Police Woman Suspended

    Apart from the, sadly predictable, mysogonistic posts about this the following views really make me wonder about people's view of treating people fairly: Am I the only one who reads this as one officer was bullied by a more senior one. The senior one was suspended and has been disciplined for that. The victim of the bullying is getting on with her career, and happens to have been promoted to another force. Why is the victim being vilified? Why should a victim be punished, lose their job, not be respected? Standing by for the suggestions that there 'may be more to this' and 'probably' the now Supt did something wrong as well. But the publicised evidence shows she was targeted and attacked for no other reason than the other thought she had had a boob job, which she denies anyway, not that it would matter if she had.
  15. Reasonable Man

    Judges rule on Brexit

    The Richmond by election gives us the first insight into a political vote since Brexit has been a major issue. In the referendum the then MP, Zac Goldsmith was pro EU but 69.2% (75,396) of his constituents voted to leave in the referendum. In the recent by election the Lib Dems got a massive swing, probably based on Sarah Olney being a Brexit supporter. People more qualified than me to make the political analysis are making all sorts of claims over this but it seems fairly safe to assume that the Brexit issue had its part to play in the Lib Dem victory. It was not as simple however as all Brexiteers voting for the Brexit party. Firstly a lot fewer people voted in the by election than in the referendum, 41,367 compared with 108,000 - probably will be the case in a General Election. Ms Olney won with 49.6% of the vote but only 20,510 votes in total. Now we will never know how each person voted in both cases but if all those Lib Dem supporters at the by election were Brexit voters in the referendum what happened to the other 55,000? They probably were not so bothered about Brexit as they did not ensure the Europhile Goldsmith did not get back in. Aside from that there were almost certainly Remainers who are dir hard Lib Dem voters and so stuck with their party of choice. My summary of it is that while on a single issue the people may wish 70-30 for one thing when it comes to the whole package it is a lot closer, and in those constituencies where the referendum result was closer to 50-50 the likelihood of a General Election result following the referendum findings becomes less likely.
  16. Reasonable Man

    His 1st diplomatic error

    Maybe he was advised to speak to them by his 'British advisor' and total waste of space Nigel Farage?
  17. Reasonable Man

    A Recovery continues

    Sounds good but my understanding of it is that as the are an EU member state then because of the EU customs union and 'common commercial policy', they are not able to negotiate their own trade agreements with non-member countries ie us after Brexit. They can only do so as part of the EU. So if we want to benefit from this we will either have to buy into the single market or negotiate a separate deal with the whole of the EU. And we can't start negotiations for at least 2 years.
  18. Reasonable Man

    A Recovery continues

    Troll or do you live in total denial? It's got to be one or the other.
  19. Reasonable Man

    A Recovery continues

    OK I'll play your game. There are 28 member states not 27. Each member state pays about 1% GNI in contributions. We don't take the total and divide it by 28 so everyone pays an equal cash amount. The U.K. With its rebate gives the lowest proportion of GNI - £12.9B in cash terms. This is fourth highest in cash terms. Germany pays the most in cash terms, more than the total of the lowest 19 contributors. So Malta pays about €66,000,000. Germany pays about €26,000,000,000. All of those 28 amounts added together = the total budget.
  20. Reasonable Man

    Judges rule on Brexit

    Thank you Cheese for your typically erudite post that makes my point more understandable for some. Thank you also HMS for answering the question and so adding the discussion - although it was asked of Zulu as it is he who is insisting that everyone who voted to leave will only vote for candidates who support the leave campaign. HMS is one who would vote on the single issue - and explains this as accepting five years of pain with an MP he didn't want would lead to the greater good of leaving the EU. Cheese shows the opposite stance with the broader issues deciding on his vote. I guess this shows that the 17.5 million people will not necessarily vote for Brexit candidates, nor will the 16.2 million only vote for pro EU ones.
  21. Reasonable Man

    Judges rule on Brexit

    I didn't invent the BNP or votes for it. There has been BNP candidates and people have voted for them. Can you give a straight answer to a straight question? I believe you won't and deflect in your usual way, but here goes. Just imagine a general election is called and in your constituency there is no UKIP candidate. All but one of the candidates are pro European, the only candidate who will vote to leave/trigger Article 50 is from the BNP. DO YOU VOTE FOR THE BNP CANDIDATE? YES or NO.
  22. Reasonable Man

    A Recovery continues

    Wow. This post shows such lack of understanding I don't know where to begin - or are you just trolling? 5 million missing out of 117 billion? I don't know where you get the 5M from but that's 0.004% - that can be accounted for by rounding.
  23. Reasonable Man

    Judges rule on Brexit

    Does that mean that only the liberal left voted to remain in the EU and for Clinton to be President?
  24. Reasonable Man

    A Recovery continues

    How can it be unbelievable. All the figures are publicly available - unless you such a conspiracy theorist that you think all the published numbers about everything is wrong. EU budget for 2015 = €145 billion = £122 billion at today's exchange rate. NHS net expenditure was £117.229 billion in 2015/16. So actually EU budget is slightly more now but back when the exchange rate was different it was less. Just shows that in real terms membership of the EU isn't that expensive.
  25. Reasonable Man

    Judges rule on Brexit

    I did. If I had Conservative, Labour, Lib Dem, Green and Independent candidates standing in my area all of whom declared their pro EU stance with a BNP candidate being the only one who would vote for Brexit. Someone is suggesting that every Brexiteer in the constituency will vote BNP in a general election. My point is EU membership is not the only show in town in a general election and people will vote on a whole range of issues.