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Guardian: 'My police service is living hand to mouth'

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It is a similar story all over the country, I can only speak for GMP.  I served on a Division as a PC when the Sub Division I worked on had 44 officers on the street. 15 years later I returned as an Inspector when we then had 28 officers on the street but over a bigger area. Within months I saw this reduced within weeks to 24 officers. When I retired 5years later this number had reduced to 16 officers. That does not sound too bad, some might think, certainly SMT but this is for a sub division that has 5 large towns, three of which, at one time in history had their own Police Forces and their own Chief Constable's.

This is the reality of Policing of which all in authority should be ashamed. The one's to suffer from this, the public tax payers, and the Police Officers who are left stranded under an intolerable burden.

Who are the authors, Politicians of all parties, PCC's and Chief Constable's for remaining quiet instead of shouting from the roof tops, not mumbling in a sealed room.

In the recent climate the streets of the City centre are teaming with officers, those officers are mainly from out of town divisions giving the false appearance of street strength.

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Blame Mrs May for cutting the budgets. We are where we are due to her policies……….. failure.

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14 hours ago, Mark101 said:

Blame Mrs May for cutting the budgets. We are where we are due to her policies……….. failure.

Our cuts came under Labour, before May, but, to be fair, they have continued under her since. I don't know the figures but the NPA has increased.

Labour have never been the friend of the Police Service, and the Conservatives always were pre Winsor. Since then I have noticed that they both have no concern for the Police except trying to gain Political control by PCC's

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Zulu are you sure that Labour cut the police budget?  I thought that we had the highest budget and numbers of PCs whilst we had a Labour government with the ConDems cutting our budget in order to help tackle the banking crisis.  I haven't however forgotten that Jacqui Smith tried to defer or spread out a  police pay rise.

Back OT.  Come 0300 on a Tuesday morning my force has approximately 18 PCs, 3 or 4 sergeants and one Inspector to cover 1m people and 800,000 square miles.  The local motorway is covered by AFOs rather than dedicated traffic officers at that time of the morning and there is only one dog available, although that can also be called to a neighbouring county.  I'd often parade zero officers for my area on a night shift by the time a scene pres, constant or a bed watch or two had been covered.

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Cuts started under Jack Straw wit the PCSO's who were, originally, for the early years financed by the local authorities. Once they stopped that they came under the police budgets, with no extra funding for them. The rest is history with offices being replaced by cheaper PCSO's, less powers and the public do not realise.

Have no idea which your Force is but the manning levels are very similar, even within the large City forces. It is a travesty that the local motorway in your area is policed by AFO teams rather than dedicated traffic officers. We always used to joke on the Motorway that as a qualification you needed to be able to run a sub 10 second 100 metres dressed in all your kit.

Yet when ever our SMT's are asked about Police numbers they come out with the old tired phrase, "We have adequate numbers to Police any eventuality"  Recent events in Manchester showed that up as a true farce. Officers on mutual aid from all over the Country, AFO's from North Wales West Midlands, Lancashire, Yorkshire, etc, etc.

Edited by Zulu 22
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I think you are slightly wrong on the funding. PCSOs were funded 75/25% by government at the start and that was why every Force had to keep the min levels of PCSOs or the government threatened to take the money back. Who would not employ someone at 25% costs and it is only in the last few years they came under the police budget with full costs to the force.

Top PCSO £25K with hardly any powers 

Top PC £36K with full powers

New PC £19K

Apprentice PC 20% less than a new PC…………….Remember the YTS scheme, this is a YTS PC :rolleyes:

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21 hours ago, Mark101 said:

 

Top PCSO £25K with hardly any powers 

Top PC £36K with full powers

New PC £19K

Apprentice PC 20% less than a new PC…………….Remember the YTS scheme, this is a YTS PC :rolleyes:

I tutored a former PCSO who had to take quite a substantial pay cut to become a PC although in the long run it was financially beneficial for him to make the move.

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All governments will endeavor to achieve policing on the cheap. Policing is an expensive business and as the Police Service does not  normally enjoy the popularity it currently does, due to the recent terrorist events, it is quite easy to make cuts in police budgets. The Police are a fairly easy target. The reality of the situation is, that as a country, we are spending money we don't have and cuts in public expenditure have to be made somewhere.  

Having said that, I think that governments of all political hues over the past few years have forgotten what their principal duty and function is, and that is the protection  the Realm and its inhabitants.  That being the case, HM Forces, the Police Service, Prison Service, Border Force, MI5 and MI6 and the general Criminal Justice system should receive much more from the public purse that has been the case for many years.

This should be done even it is means moving money from the Foreign Aid Budget, NHS etc. none of which HMG has a duty to fund. Of course, this would cause uproar especially when it comes to the NHS, but many countries such as the Republic of Ireland and New Zealand do not have a NHS and although I do not advocate disbanding the NHS I think HMG should get its priorities right.

 

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I would find the headlong rush to praise the police and to demand more resources  amusing if it wasn't for the tragic circumstances which brought about the calls.  Even the DM questioned the cuts in one article although normal service was quickly resumed with articles criticising the police for taking too long to ID the victims and because we hadn't kept track on the suspects.  

I never heard Labour jumping to our defence prior to the election but May's comments reminding voters that Labour called for 10% cuts to the police in 2015 when the Tories were discussing 20-40% cuts to our budget were extremely hypercritical and self serving.  We were only saved from 20% plus cuts because of the Paris attacks which would have been on top of 20% cuts already imposed by the Tories.

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It is essential that the identities are known before you try and inform relatives. I had a straight forward Fatal RETC once. Went to the home asking a mother if her son still owned a car Reg No. etc. She replied Yes. We were about to break the sad news when she said, "Oh just a minute he sold it last week". She then called and woke her son who was able to tell us who he had sold it to.

The cuts came about because of Winsor, and austerity measures but also, indirectly because of the Edmund Davies report which gave guaranteed annual pay rises which had pushed us way above the national levels.. If you think that them Guardian article is correct then seek out some retired officers who were serving prior to 1974.  My father was one and he was in receipt of State benefits because of his family and his wage was so low. In those days officers could not afford cars, foreign holidays, or Gym subscriptions. In 1969 his take home pay was £60 per month including CID allowances and expenses.

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On 08/06/2017 at 15:51, Zulu 22 said:

It is essential that the identities are known before you try and inform relatives. I had a straight forward Fatal RETC once. Went to the home asking a mother if her son still owned a car Reg No. etc. She replied Yes. We were about to break the sad news when she said, "Oh just a minute he sold it last week". She then called and woke her son who was able to tell us who he had sold it to.

The cuts came about because of Winsor, and austerity measures but also, indirectly because of the Edmund Davies report which gave guaranteed annual pay rises which had pushed us way above the national levels.. If you think that them Guardian article is correct then seek out some retired officers who were serving prior to 1974.  My father was one and he was in receipt of State benefits because of his family and his wage was so low. In those days officers could not afford cars, foreign holidays, or Gym subscriptions. In 1969 his take home pay was £60 per month including CID allowances and expenses.

I remember those days well and it was only because I was unmarried that I was not in the same situation as your father.

Things only changed because of Edmund-Davies which came about largely because of a difficulty to recruit and the further problem of retained those who did join.  Of my intake of 20 only 2 of us completed 10 years service and only 2 of us completed the 30 years necessary to qualify for a pension.   We owe much to those who voted with their feet and resigned.

Most had gone within the first 5/6 years, as predicted by the Sgt who took us through our first week at training school.

 

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On 08/06/2017 at 12:47, skydiver said:

I would find the headlong rush to praise the police and to demand more resources  amusing if it wasn't for the tragic circumstances which brought about the calls.  Even the DM questioned the cuts in one article although normal service was quickly resumed with articles criticising the police for taking too long to ID the victims and because we hadn't kept track on the suspects.  

I never heard Labour jumping to our defence prior to the election but May's comments reminding voters that Labour called for 10% cuts to the police in 2015 when the Tories were discussing 20-40% cuts to our budget were extremely hypercritical and self serving.  We were only saved from 20% plus cuts because of the Paris attacks which would have been on top of 20% cuts already imposed by the Tories.

I s[pent all my police service in areas where the Labour Party were politically dominant and with very few exceptions can state that they, and other on the Left, were rarely great fans of the police. I don't think things would change when a current Labour win would have resulted in some if its leadership being people who once wished for the abolition of Special Branch and the disarming of the Police.

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14 hours ago, Mark101 said:

Only 3 of us left after 20yrs service……………...

Sorry for the typo. It should have read 30 years servicde but I think you knew that.

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