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I am aware that I may be regurgitating a question that has been asked on here a number of times therefore I apologise in advance, however can someone please spare a few minutes to give me an idea to where I am at given the following circumstances.

I am on the 1987 Pension scheme since joining in Feb 1998.(19yrs Service), I have a further 4 years Military service pension.

Therefore as It stands I have just over 23yrs pensionable service. I am currently 43.

I am in the 'tiered' system for the new pension scheme and don't move over to the new pension scheme until 2019.

The last bit of information may be academic because my question is simply ' If I were to resign now, when would I be able to get my pension?'.

I fear the answer is State Pension Age which I know is currently 67 but will no doubt have changed to 103 when I am 6 days short of my 67th birthday. 
 

The fact that I am asking this when England are playing Scotland in the Six Nations proves just how desperate I am to walk away from a job that I once loved and was very committed and passionate about . . . . . . . how things change eh?!.

 

Thanks in advance for your time and any help you can provide.

 

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You need Cheese's sage advice on this but from my limited knowledge you can get no pension at all until SPA you go before 50.


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Get 25yrs service in and then walk away and you will get pension at 50, if not I believe it could be 60 or state retirement age. 

 

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Thanks for taking the time to reply.

'Cheese's Sage' ?!  . . . . . . its no doubt my naivety but what or who is that please?

Also, I have heard that 25yrs pensionable service is the threshold in terms of when you could walk away and still claim your pensions when you were due it but do you not have to be a certain age too? I would be 45 when I reach that landmark.

Thanks again for your help.

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The short answer is that if you resign now, I think your pension will be delayed until state pension age. Who knows what that will be by the time that day comes???:(.

Heres how I understand it, and our situations are very similar in that I also joined in 1998 (so I have 19 yrs service but with 20 yrs pensionable service) and I am also desperate to get out ASAP. But unlike you I dont have the  advantage of your 4 additional years pensionable service, boosting your service level to 23yrs and also putting you into the tiered position. For that you should be grateful ;). But as far as retiring early goes, your youthful age is working against you :(.

The earliest you can receive any of your 1987 pension is by getting 25yrs pensionable service (so thats 2 years away), but heres the bad news, to get the 1987 scheme 25yr pension you also need to be aged 50, so you will actually have to work another 7 yrs (sorry). You need to have both 25yrs pensionable service and be aged 50. By the time you have worked to age 50 you will also have achieved your full 30 yrs service (under the 1987 pension) so can retire on a bigger pension. Then, 5 yrs later, and having enjoyed 5 yrs of retirement you can start to receive your 2015 CARE pension that you will soon be paying into. Or you can choose to defer the CARE pension until you are 60 and receive more. The earliest the CARE pension will pay out is at age 55.

Under the 1987 scheme cops could retire before age 50 if they had achieved their 30 years full service. But even they wouldn't have been able to take the 25yr pension unless they were aged 50.

To get your 1987 pension at the earliest opportunity you must remain in service and remain in the 2015 CARE pension.

So, either resign now and wait until state pension age (if i correct?) before getting your pension, or work another 7yrs and then get a pension for the rest of your life.

 

Heres something else you could consider, which I am actually considering myself at the moment....

How about going part time? Sounds unthinkable doesnt it. But it could actually make sense. Your 1987 pension entitlement is safe (assuming yo remain in it until you move over to the CARE pension) and you will soon only be working for the new 2015 CARE pension which obviously isn't worth as much as the old pension. You could go part time as soon as you move over to the 2015 CARE scheme in 2019, and for the following 5 yrs until you are 50 you can pick up some alternative part time employment. Then retire age 50 and get all of your 1987 pension entitlements. You will also have established yourself in alternative employment which you may decide to continue with, thus boosting your 1987 pension payout. Then when your age 55 you start getting whatever your CARE pension pays you as well.

Just a thought!;)

 

As for how long will your pension be delayed if you resign now? Im not entirely sure, but I reckon you wont get it until SPA (state pension age).

As far as retiring early goes, you have an advantage over me due to your additional 4yrs pensionable military service, and being in the tiered system. But I have an advantage in being 2yrs older than you, meaning I will be age 50 in 5yrs time, and this will coincide with me achieving 25yrs pensionable service.

(P.S. - I'm age 45, and have 19yrs service but with 20 yrs pensionable service. Im now on the CARE pension scheme and I plan to retire with the 25yr pension in 5 yrs time. Doing this means my CARE pension wont pay out very much. I will get about £29k lump sum & £1000/month from my 1987 pension, and when im 55 the CARE pension will kick in and pay me about £200/month. As im now only really working for my CARE pension Im seriously considering going part time, reducing my hours by half, and picking up some stress free part time work. Putting any drop in wages to one side, this will only impact on my CARE pension and may reduce it by 50%, but even so I'll only be loosing £100/month. Im prepared to loose that if it means being away from this crap job).

 

Edited by Yorkshire

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5 hours ago, Mark101 said:

Get 25yrs service in and then walk away and you will get pension at 50, if not I believe it could be 60 or state retirement age. 

 

As my post above, when Dazzzler has got 25 yrs pensionable service in he will only be 45 yrs old and wont yet be entitled to the early pension. Cops need to have 25 years pensionable service and be age 50 to get the 25 yr pension. By the time Dazzzler is age 50 he will have achieved 30 yrs service and can retire with his 1987 pension, and then get his CARE pension when he's age 55.

At least thats my understanding, and i'd be happy to be wrong.

Edited by Yorkshire

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Hi

Very straightforward. As it stands now with 23 years in the 87 scheme, if you left tomorrow then your pension would be deferred until 60. 

If you stayed on for two more years to get 25 years pensionable service then you can take it at 50.

You are tapered until 2019 so neither option would involve the CARE 2015 scheme so you are solely in the 87 scheme.

Far be it from me to give advice, but if you can stomach the job for two more years then that gives you 10 extra years pension, potentially at least an extra £190k. (10 years of a PC's 25 year pension is about £19k per year). So you would be throwing away £19k per year from the age of 50 if you left now. 

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Thanks for taking the time to reply.
'Cheese's Sage' ?!  . . . . . . its no doubt my naivety but what or who is that please?

This is Cheese with his sage (wise) advice.
Hi
Very straightforward. As it stands now with 23 years in the 87 scheme, if you left tomorrow then your pension would be deferred until 60. 
If you stayed on for two more years to get 25 years pensionable service then you can take it at 50.
You are tapered until 2019 so neither option would involve the CARE 2015 scheme so you are solely in the 87 scheme.
Far be it from me to give advice, but if you can stomach the job for two more years then that gives you 10 extra years pension, potentially at least an extra £190k. (10 years of a PC's 25 year pension is about £19k per year). So you would be throwing away £19k per year from the age of 50 if you left now. 




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Thanks for taking the time to reply.
'Cheese's Sage' ?!  . . . . . . its no doubt my naivety but what or who is that please?

This is Cheese with his sage (wise) advice.
Hi
Very straightforward. As it stands now with 23 years in the 87 scheme, if you left tomorrow then your pension would be deferred until 60. 
If you stayed on for two more years to get 25 years pensionable service then you can take it at 50.
You are tapered until 2019 so neither option would involve the CARE 2015 scheme so you are solely in the 87 scheme.
Far be it from me to give advice, but if you can stomach the job for two more years then that gives you 10 extra years pension, potentially at least an extra £190k. (10 years of a PC's 25 year pension is about £19k per year). So you would be throwing away £19k per year from the age of 50 if you left now. 




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Thanks once again to everyone who has taken the time and effort to reply.

I am now going to do one of the things that used to drive me mad about my ex wife ie ask a question, get the answer and then argue against the answer (And NO, she does not have any claim on my pension :P) but I am getting conflicting views and want to get a definitive.

Yorkshire understands that I need to have 25yrs pensionable service AND be aged 50 to get my full pension at 50, however Cheese Puff believes that so long as I do 25yrs, I will still get my pension at 50 regardless of my age at the point of resignation.

Furthermore, if I left tomorrow with 23yrs pensionable service , would I definitely get my pension at 60 even after the revision of the State Pension Age to 67?

Yorkshire's advice about going Part Time and Cheese's advice about sucking it up for a further 2 years are both sound and being carefully considered, so I am indebted to you both.

As a foot note, having received the help that I have received after making a post out of the blue on Saturday, a little faith has been restored in the fact that not everyone in our organisation is out to do your legs and there are still some people who genuinely care about their peers, colleagues and friends.  So for what is worth, Well done and please keep it up as uncertainty can leave you in a very lonely place.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Dazzzler said:

Thanks once again to everyone who has taken the time and effort to reply.

I am now going to do one of the things that used to drive me mad about my ex wife ie ask a question, get the answer and then argue against the answer (And NO, she does not have any claim on my pension :P) but I am getting conflicting views and want to get a definitive.

No problem with that.

Yorkshire understands that I need to have 25yrs pensionable service AND be aged 50 to get my full pension at 50, however Cheese Puff believes that so long as I do 25yrs, I will still get my pension at 50 regardless of my age at the point of resignation.

Essentially that's the same thing. You need to have done 25 years service to claim a pension at 50. You don't have to be 50 when you complete your 25 years, you can be 45, but if you left at 45 you can't claim it until you are 50. As an example if you joined at 18 then you'd be 43 after 25 years. You would have to wait seven years to claim your pension.

Also it's not a full pension, it's a half pension (30/60ths).

Furthermore, if I left tomorrow with 23yrs pensionable service , would I definitely get my pension at 60 even after the revision of the State Pension Age to 67?

Yes you would. The 1987 pension is not linked to State Pension Age, that's the new 2015 scheme that is.

Yorkshire's advice about going Part Time and Cheese's advice about sucking it up for a further 2 years are both sound and being carefully considered, so I am indebted to you both.

As a foot note, having received the help that I have received after making a post out of the blue on Saturday, a little faith has been restored in the fact that not everyone in our organisation is out to do your legs and there are still some people who genuinely care about their peers, colleagues and friends.  So for what is worth, Well done and please keep it up as uncertainty can leave you in a very lonely place.

Good luck in your decision. You can of course do both, two more years and part time, to take you to the magic 25. But think very carefully about throwing away £180,000 pounds!!

 

 

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Dazzler Cheese is the expert on Pension matters. I used to be but the Pensions changes moved rapidly just after I left and I now no longer have all the Regs to hand.

Have you enquired from your Federation office as they should have people there with the expertise to give you a very accurate answer, that is one reason that you pay your Fed subs.  Before retirement I did it for one of my P.C.'s and he was annoyed because I was 37pence out on the calculation.:D  I would add that the 37 pence was in his favour.  The Pension Regs can be a nightmare, but as far as I can see Cheese is spot on but do confirm with your Fed.

What ever you decide, good luck but remember that £180,000 that you could miss out on, long term.

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Dazzler,

Cheese as ever is spot on. I would add also that things are changing so quickly that there is every chance you may be able to get a voluntary reducancy payment. As long as you're 18 months away from being 50 you will get 21 months pay - some tax likely to pay on it- and then you will get your 87 pension at 50. More reason to hold on for 2 years and/or go part time. South Yorks have just offered it and I think most forces will look at it at some stage.

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Take cheese's advice over mine, as the little I know has been learnt from him.

I assumed you had to stay until you were age 50 to get the 25yr service pension, so I stand corrected. I didn't realise you could leave before age 50, nor did I realise that any 25 yr pension would then kick in when you did get to 50. I incorrectly assumed you had to have done 25 yrs service and be at least age 50 before you retired, to claim it.

Part time is better than it sounds. If you reduced your hours by half, your pay doesnt drop by half, you end up with more than half pay. This is because the first £11,000 (I think) of income is tax free. So you will get just over half pay for doing half the hours.

Someone I know had reduced their hours by half, and their take home pay dropped from just under £2,000 /month to about £1,300/month. Worth considering. But seek advice from Federation and pension dept to clarify this, and how it might effect your pension.

As for Voluntary Redundancy, my force has just introduced it for PC's only at one months pay for every year of service, but your pension is deferred until age 60. They have just done Phase 1 where they wanted 100 to take voluntary redundancy. They received 150 applicants. Some were rejected as they were under disciplinary procedures. Some were rejected as they had specialist skills (another reason to not rush to be qualified in every course going!!). Our TSG/Traffic/Firearms cops were rejected.

 Next year they will be doing Phase 2 where again they want another 100 officers to leave, followed by the same again in Phase 3. Theres even a chance that if they dont get enough officers to take it they might offer an enhanced package. What that might be I don't know, maybe 1.5 months pay for every year served? Or pension entitlements maintained and not deferred? Who knows, but its interesting times for anyone wanting to leave.

I hate the job and would love to leave, but the VR figures dont work for my circumstances. Im holding out 5 more years for the 25 yr pension, at which pint I will be a just few months over 50 yrs old. That day can't come quick enough and I dream about it every day. Sad isn't it, especially as its all I ever wanted to do since the age of 4, and the sheer joy I experienced when being accepted. And i'm not the only one, moral is at rock bottom with almost every cop I work with, even the new starters. Many have quit after just a few months, saying its crap.

Just keep your head down, keep out of bother, and become Mr Grey, and your time will come.

Edited by Yorkshire

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cheese_puff, does it need to be 25 yrs actual service or 25 yrs pensionable service? If I had 1 yrs pensionable service brought in from a previous employment could I leave after 24 yrs?

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