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Serious Public Disorder

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It has been reported on the BBC that over 100 persons were involved in a mass brawl outside clubs and pubs in Woking, Surrey. Taxi drivers were intimidated and there were 4 arrests before peace was restored.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-38430669

 

Either Surreypol are seriously undermanned or there was not enough officers on duty but with that number of people involved only 4 arrests is not a lot.

Edited by Techie1
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A Sunday and a Bank Holiday. What is the betting that they were on bare minimum staffing levels and every officer on duty would have been put at great risk. At a time of good will towards men where do the people of Surrey find 100 idiots to kick off at this time. A least some senior officer on call will have been disrupted. 

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Yeap, more to come tomorrow on Boxing Day…………………we have been told min staffing is 12 tomorrow, we only have 8 fully fit staff at this time. We worked xmas eve with 7 staff, should have 14 but many are sick!

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13 hours ago, Zulu 22 said:

A Sunday and a Bank Holiday. What is the betting that they were on bare minimum staffing levels and every officer on duty would have been put at great risk. At a time of good will towards men where do the people of Surrey find 100 idiots to kick off at this time. A least some senior officer on call will have been disrupted. 

Winsor's bank holiday reforms have a lot to answer for.  There are financial benefits for the force  with mine for example cutting its bank holiday O/T bill by about £1m which is not to be sniffed at.  That saving however does come at a cost and that is lack of staff or staff having r/d cancelled.  A lot of people moved their bank holidays to Christmas and have the entire period off but that of course reduces the pool of people available to work the holiday.  My force called for volunteers to work and got a tiny response so their next tactic was to cancel r/d with less than 10 days notice which went down like a lead balloon.  As a result response was down to min cover with a lot of very unhappy and tired people working.  I'm sure the situation in other forces was similar so it wouldn't surprise me if Surrey had next to no people to respond to the disorder.

Edited by skydiver

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52 minutes ago, skydiver said:

Winsor's bank holiday reforms have a lot to answer for.  There are financial benefits for the force  with mine for example cutting its bank holiday O/T bill by about £1m which is not to be sniffed at.  That saving however does come at a cost and that is lack of staff or staff having r/d cancelled.  A lot of people moved their bank holidays to Christmas and have the entire period off but that of course reduces the pool of people available to work the holiday.  My force called for volunteers to work and got a tiny response so their next tactic was to cancel r/d with less than 10 days notice which went down like a lead balloon.  As a result response was down to min cover with a lot of very unhappy and tired people working.  I'm sure the situation in other forces was similar so it wouldn't surprise me if Surrey had next to no people to respond to the disorder.

Let us not forget that management, in in the Police, have a duty of care.

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Cancelling the rest days is down to poor management. Senior Command need to remember that they had a duty of care for every officer.

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I think the matter that concerns me most about the manning issues is the apparent lack of strategic understanding that Police Officers have physical and mental limits that require adequate rest and this is particularly the case at times of high demand for services. I think Zulu's point is very clear - police SMTs have a duty of care and that is not an "after action" duty but one that ensures that adequate numbers of properly rested officers are available for each shift. I know i am being impractical but there has to be some realisation of this matter before there are more (physically & mentally) injured officers.

I hope all officers on the front line will be safe over the holiday period and 2017 might see some improvements.

To all forum members, a belated Happy Christmas and may you have a happy, healthy, and prosperous 2017.

 

  

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Always found there actually are plenty of officers on duty at the busy Xmas public holiday public order shifts.However they are not 'frontline' in that they do not parade at a local police station or have responsibilty for answering calls.Talking OSU, firearms, motorway some CID units.Call code zero and people come out of the woodwork.

Not having a go at the various units because they get dropped on from a height should they volunteer leaving what should they need to do uncovered.Example I volunteered to drive a van one Saturday night during an England tournament game 2008 on my day off.Get to work to be told I was to deal with various suspects already in the cells and that I would be OIC afterwards ended up working 13 hours noone wanted to sign the OT.

So I never volunteered ever again.

Good management of staff is vital during the busy times.

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Hiram,  I can only guess which force you are in but that is not the case for most forces. Most work on a minimum staffing level and then pray that nothing kicks off. Staffing levels are generally out of our hands and we are told to make do with what we have. When it comes to management, sadly, we are generally lacking. I had many a disagreement with divisional command, and they relied on the expense arguement and never the welfare or effectiveness.

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All passed off peacefully on Boxing Day, thankfully. Several officer remained on duty to help out and some worked 16hrs in the process, management were happy with that………..But management are cracking the whip and saying that no officer can return to duty unless 11hrs are between shifts……….But saying that, they have asked for officers to work a football match on extended duties after a day shift, 9hr shift and probably working 15hrs+………..it is getting so confusing………..

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Mark101. To be quite honest, I don't think some management know exactly what is going on, issueing one edict then countermanding it when the situation dictates due to shortages.. They are so wrapped up chasing their own tails brought on by the restrictions on manpower and money to recruit more they have difficulty in deciding if they are punch bored or countersunk! tempered by the possibility of discipline if they get it wrong.

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Someone should remind them of Police Regs. If something goes wrong they won't have a leg to stand on. What happens to the officer who finds hus health ruined and his wife walking out. You never hear of management being investigated by PSD. If I was still serving I would be having a meeting ASAP. 

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Interesting that people suggest BH are worked with minimum staff because it is a BH. The frontline in most places exists on the bare minimum every day!! Senior officers are aware and they care, there simply isn't the staff available....

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