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skydiver

Pros and Cons of Fire Service and Police Integration.

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According to this story http://www.policeoracle.com/news/police_staff/2016/Jan/05/closer-blue-light-working-due-as-home-office-takes-over-fire-service_90545.html HMG wants the fire service and police to collaborate and integrate more, including purchasing, PCCs taking over responsibility for the fire service, and chief fire officers being eligible to apply to be a chief constable.  Personally I can't see the argument for this but I want to see what opinions other people have.

 

HMG seems dead set against force mergers yet they want to push integration with the fire service.  I would have thought that we have much more in common with other police forces than with the fire service.  The service we provide is completely different, our recruitment and training has nothing in common, the uniforms and equipment we use are different, our vehicles are different, our computer systems are different, our medical and fitness requirements are different.  Police are a service of last resort who can't say no and end up taking up the slack for the NHS and social services but I don't recall the fire service being expected to do the same thing.  Correct me if I'm wrong but we don't even serve the same geographical areas.

 

I concede that there may be some common ground in HR and some admin areas  but given the relative sizes of most fire services in comparison with the average constabulary I would have thought that we'd effectively take over and swamp the requirements of any fire service. My force for example is over three times the size of the local fire service.   It would be even worse in areas where forces have already collaborated and merged back office functions.  I guess we could also use combined fire and police stations but there is no real need to do that specifically with them as we could have combined offices with any number of different organisations from the council to schools or libraries so there would be nothing special or compelling about using a fire station.

 

The real kicker for me is that Mike Penning has had the fire service added to his remit in order to further collaboration.  He has a less than stellar record with police reform as he doesn't seem to have any ideas of his own or any imagination although he is exceptionally good at towing the party line and repeating the same quote that 'our reforms are working and crime is down.'  I can't see the FBU  being pleased with the appointment.

 

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When my father was a PC back in the 30's/40's the police also carried out the duties of emergency ambulance as well. I remember him saying it was a system that didn't work then. so amalgamating with the fire service today when the systems are that much busier, I cannot see it working any better now.

 

They are so intent of saving money, I think they have lost sight of the true purpose of the emergency services and think that mixing them all in the same pot will work.

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'Let's look on the bright side,It might mean getting beds in the Police station.'

 

 

 

They already have them in most stations, not quite ensuite, but with waiter service for meals served in the room. The stay can even be full board as well! The beds are a little hard and the individual rooms tend to smell at times. The concierge is always at hand to look after your welfare!!!! :thumbup3::confused::eat2::help::locked:

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It would piss off the police officers even more, with them sleeping all night………….I worked with fire officers many years ago, on their days off, in a car hire firm and they were meant to work their middle two rest days but they worked them all, as they hardly got turned out at night so managed to get enough sleep to turn up at 8am next day. Don't know if things have changed now.

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If they are called out to attend in lieu of an ambulance, will the NHS be billed for the cost?

 

Leaving cynicism to one side, if this does save one life or eases the suffering of those in pain, then I think it would be worth doing.

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If they are called out to attend in lieu of an ambulance, will the NHS be billed for the cost?

 

Leaving cynicism to one side, if this does save one life or eases the suffering of those in pain, then I think it would be worth doing.

 

There was someone from the ambulance on tv last night sating they would be backed up immediately by an ambulance. I suspect this won't be the case though and that once the fire brigade get to a scene it will drop the job to the back of the ambulance queue. This is what generally happens when the police arrive.

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Yeap, if we want an ambulance the officer on the ground has to call them and they will use them are triage officer and work out if they will be attending. If they don't attend they leave it with the officer………….it is rubbish. We put them in back of car and take them to A&E to save any hassle and then it is the hospital's responsibility.

 

I love this one "Ambulance is standing By …...…(an address) can officers attend and help as patient has violent markers"………..officers attend, no ambulance……."where is the ambulance"……..reply……..not one has been allocated yet…..hmmmmm……"who phoned" member of the public phoned ambulance control on 999….….hmmmmm…………..and with police attendance at the address the ambulance control room mark it up as if they have attended due to 'partnership working'……crafty. It happens all the time.

 

Are they getting more money for doing more work?………..why don't they train up & send deliver drivers at ASDA, Morrisons, Sainburys to attend calls on their rounds for no extra money!!!!!!……...

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I'm sure they'll get lots of sleep & considerate police officers will tiptoe around, whisper & won't put on or test their sirens until they're well out of earshot of the station.

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One of my first Sergeants was an old salt from Stockport Borough Police Force who told us that at one time they actually were part of the Stockport Fire Brigade and they were affectionately know as "Icky the Fire Bobby"   They separated the Fire and Police because it just did not work. It appears that some in authority are unaware of history.

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One of my first Sergeants was an old salt from Stockport Borough Police Force who told us that at one time they actually were part of the Stockport Fire Brigade and they were affectionately know as "Icky the Fire Bobby"   They separated the Fire and Police because it just did not work. It appears that some in authority are unaware of history.

Why didn't it work?

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Why didn't it work?

I don't know and he has been dead for some time.

Just think you have 1 house fire, and serious assault and ongoing reports. Where on earth do you find the manpower.

Put that on a Saturday night and you may as well raise the white flag and abandon society tothe wolves. It is bad enough now.

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The difference from then and now is that then it was the same people at the coal face doing the same work. This job holding a hose, next job arresting an offender. Both organisations have moved on massively since then and with the training, equipment and technical knowledge with associated CPD we are not going to have 'Firepoliceman Sam' going around in the same uniform. We have lines of demarcation in the job now with 'not my job'. If we can, and we do, say Neighbourhood can't deal with that, it has to go to 'X' Dept then we can equally say the fire section can't deal with this child protection job and the ARV is not going to rescue the sheep that had fallen down a cliff.

This will about merging the back office functions and surely it would be cheaper to share HR, pay sections, Occ Health, Admin, Control Rooms etc.

Not to say that some other 'hands on' functions couldn't be shared eg what's wrong with a crime and fire prevention officer?

Sent from me using witchcraft

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