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Hillsborough Enquiry


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#1 Maverick22

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 05:58 PM

http://www.bbc.co.uk...eyside-24051314  -   some more evidence appears to have come to light.  Some of the families are complaining about the IPCC being too slow, we have been saying that for years on this Forum.   I thought Owers was supposed to sort out the IPCC and getting it working quickly, and efficiently, she has been there a year and done nothing, it's just as s;low as it ever was. 


There are certain people in the world who you know will only ever have two certificates in their lives, a Birth and Death Certificate.

#2 BIkerider

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 08:24 PM

The old chestnut of altered statements has come to the fore again plus a load of old pocket books have been found that were previously thought to have been destroyed.


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#3 Silver plated

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 08:30 PM

It's time these poor families are finally given some truth and justice.
Hillsborough is definitely one of the low points of British policing. A criminal cover up.

#4 Maverick22

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 06:01 AM

...........................and all the Liverpool supporters were Paragons of Virtue according to the Bishop of Liverpool and Ms Eagle et al.


There are certain people in the world who you know will only ever have two certificates in their lives, a Birth and Death Certificate.

#5 IveToldYouOnce

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 08:43 AM

When I used to handwrite my statements, I don't think I ever wrote one that I didn't have to 'amend'..........either a spelling mistake or as I was writing it I realised that my grammar wasn't as it should be.  Are those types of changes included in the 'have been altered' stats.........?


"It's going to be a two banana kind of day....."

#6 Zulu 22

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 09:38 AM

Not this again. Italian victims of the Hysel Stadium have not even recieved an apology from Liverpool or their fans.

 

As for Hillsborough, all the victims were innocent victims.  The people to blame were many including many ill behaved fans, the F.A., Sheffield Wednesday, and the Police for never having had that experience to deal with before.

 

I suppost that it could be said that the referee was to blame for kicking off on time before all the late fans had stampeeded in.

 

Like others, Yes I have altered statements after reading them through. Generally the alterations were initialled to show they were agreed and genuine.  It was normal practise in all investigations.



#7 Zulu 22

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 08:31 AM

I don't know your background, TWK, but, for sure, you are well off-the-mark with this offensive comment. Zulu' is stating exactly what the situation is - there were a lot more people to blame in the Hillsborough incident than just the Police. The latest "commission of enquiry" was based in Liverpool and chaired by the Bishop of Liverpool; so it cannot be said in any way, shape or form to be non-partisan!

 

If you really think that the Liverpool fans did not contribute to the disaster nor the stadium authorities, the FA or others on the day, you are guilty of being blind to reality; if you are a Police Officer - that worries me just as much as there might be bigots in the Police Force. If, however, you are not a Police officer but a Liverpudlian related to one of the victims, I understand your pain but being blind to reality won't make it go away.

 

Thank you OAH. Just for the record my wife's family are all Liverpudlians, and strangely they happen to agree with me. They just dare not say so on Merseyside. I have stood and sat in the Kop as much as they have, and I am conversant with the supporters good behaviour, and bad. The inquest is to be in Warrington, so they might as well have held it in Liverpool.  A true verdict would probably be misadventure.  What may, or may not, have happened after the event is for another enquiry.


Edited by Zulu 22, 01 October 2013 - 08:32 AM.


#8 OldChattox

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 08:37 AM

Indeed, my own feeling is that no one faction will be 100% blamed or exonerated. Zulu - Warrington is only the venue because there are suitable premises available; the investigating officers are from all over the country, with the exception of any in forces involved in the incident and any subsequent enquiries into it. 

 

TWK, many of these officers would have been teenagers or even younger at the time of the tragedy and have no vested interest in the outcome. I fear that the real winners will be the lawyers; a solicitor I am closely acquainted with tells me that this has created a veritable feeding frenzy in her profession. 



#9 M&MBM

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 09:02 AM

A post has been removed because it attacks a forum member. Please remember to attack the argument and not the poster. Thanks.


MOP, Joker & reformed character. Honest. Posted ImageI moderate with purple prose

#10 Silver plated

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 08:21 PM

The police action on the day was without doubt a contributing factor to this tragic event. The police actions in covering up their failures on the day and seeking to pass the blame to Liverpool supporters is what is really unforgivable.

#11 Zulu 22

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 09:44 AM

The police action on the day was without doubt a contributing factor to this tragic event. The police actions in covering up their failures on the day and seeking to pass the blame to Liverpool supporters is what is really unforgivable.

 

As was the behaviour of some of the fans, the F.A., Sheffield Wednessday football club, the emergency services. All the factors contributed to this tragedy.  As I have said before, I believe that all of the victims were innocent. They arrived in plenty of time and took their places in what turned into a death trap.



#12 Silver plated

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 07:06 PM

Unlike Sheffield Wednesday , the FA, ambulance service etc.. The Police are supposed to uphold the law, not conspire a cover up to hide their actions on the day. The police cover up disgusts me, and completely undermines our reputation disproportionately to all the good work we do.

#13 IveToldYouOnce

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 07:12 PM

I think that's it's everybody's duty to tell the truth......not just ours.....


"It's going to be a two banana kind of day....."

#14 Silver plated

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 07:45 PM

I agree, but we get paid to tell the truth, and it's what the public rightly expect from the police. Not lies and cover ups.

#15 999tommo

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 09:00 PM

Until we know the full facts, we don't actually know there was any Police cover up.  All the stuff in the sensationalist media reports, can be explained away so far.  As for the previous inquiry into the events, that was biased beyond belief, so would only ever come to one conclusion.  Perhaps there has been a bit of underhand practise going on, but I'll wait until I hear the facts.


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#16 Feetup

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 09:58 PM

I am embarrassed by the cover up.

But, the fact of the matter is that the Liverpool supporters who arrived late are at least partly responsible for this disaster and most football supporters, certainly those from the 80s, will realise that.

Yes, there were mistakes, but the police officers were not the only ones to blame. As someone said above, the fact the Bishop of Liverpool found the supporters innocent was no surprise.

It is a bit of a farce to claim Warrington is neutral territory as it is virtually Merseyside.



#17 OldChattox

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 07:25 AM

Are you seriously saying that the investigators are going to be influenced by working in a particular town? That doesn't suggest much confidence in their impartiality or professionalism! 



#18 almostthere

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 07:57 AM

The Hillsborough incident was a catastrophe which was in no means a callous act on anyone's part. The aftermath, however, has seen the blame game culture at it's very worst. So much so that soon, we will discover it there has been any corrupt practices by the folk in charge.

 

The fences that were partially to blame for the amount of deaths were put there due to previous incidents and were there as crowd control. The planning and installation had obviously not taken account of such a crowd surge and therefore lacked the escape routes which will now be advised in any further development of such fencing.

 

The casualties were all innocent and are still sorely missed by their loved ones and until closure occurs, a dark cloud will remain over the tragedy.

 

I do hope that the truth will out and anyone ordering any kind of cover up is dealt with accordingly and anyone who has been wronged throughout the years receives a rightful apology.



#19 OldAfricaHand

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 07:58 AM

I agree, but we get paid to tell the truth, and it's what the public rightly expect from the police. Not lies and cover ups.

 

Until there is some form of independent enquiry (not chaired by someone with a potentially vested interest) we do not actually know what lies may have been told nor who might told them; so we cannot say there was a cover-up.

 

I think you are assuming that the current noise is the result of an official enquiry - not so. It comes as a result of an enquiry chaired by the Bishop of Liverpool (I'm not sure if it is the Anglican or Fenian one) which provoked fresh media interest. It is in the Government's interest to fan the flames of rage about the Police and, sadly, I can see there will be considerable efforts to go from flames to fire-storm - and as there will be no-one supporting the now mostly retired officers involved, they will be picked-off by the big gun lawyers - no doubt Michael Mansfield and his ilk (maybe even the fragrant Cherie as she is a scouser and an avowed supporter of human rights). So I think you need to tread water on exactly what happened.

 

Having said all this, I do sympathise with the families of those killed on the day but that is not a reason for laying the blame solely on the Police on duty on the day not of others who may have investigated afterwards. As a number of posters have said in this thread - the changing of statements / pocket-book entries was common-place - not surprising when many officers will have had little time to reflect on what occurred before putting pen to paper.


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#20 OldAfricaHand

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 08:04 AM

Are you seriously saying that the investigators are going to be influenced by working in a particular town? That doesn't suggest much confidence in their impartiality or professionalism! 

 

OC

 

I would like to think that this will be investigated in a professional manner but I am a cynic and I have little doubt that there will be pressure brought to bear by politicians to ensure an appropriate outcome. If you doubt my sanity on this, I would just ask you to consider the Dr David Kelly and Iraq Inquiries .......................... neither of which have actually brought any closure but cast so much doubt about the way they were conducted as to probably ensure closure will never happen in the minds of many! I have to be frank and say that I believe any outcome that does not focus on Police culpability and exonerates all the fans will not be welcome by the politicians. Finally, I wonder if the investigators will take an oath to operate "without favour or affection, malice or ill-will"? :tongue_cheek:


Brian - I used to be indecisive, now I'm just not sure!




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