BlackRat601

More cuts on the way!

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It has been announced that the Home Office has agreed budget cuts of a further 8-10%. This can only mean more cuts to policing as the only area announced that will not be subject to them is the CT budget

Edited by BlackRat601

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22904306

If it's ten percent, or anywhere close it will be potentially catastrophic. Bear in mind we are talking cuts JUST for 2015/16 - ie 1 year

The previous cuts required 20% over 4 years - or 5% a year. This is double that for one year only. They're writing it into legislation so labour can't undo it if elected and labour have already said they won't undo it anyway....

Take a force like West Mids...previous budget 600m...have saved 120m, bringing current budget down to 480m per year.

Try taking 48m off in one year...there's only one apparent way to do that after seizmic reforms already....and that is MASSIVE compulsory severance, IMHO.

The good news? 2015 should be the last really bad year.

The bad? CS would have to have been used before April 2015 for the savings to be realised financial year 2015/16..

The good? Can't see them implementing it, getting it though parliament and ammending regs by Jan 2015 which would allow them to meet the deadline of 3 months notice..

Still - interesting times...

Edited by Picard999

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They would not make the savings in time if they sack anyone with more than 12 years service as they would have to pay them a years pay in CS anyway, this is not good news for the young in service for compulsory redundancy for 2015/16.....Picard I like your optimism for after 2015 I still think the country will be stuffed but I hope Im wrong.

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Croaks,

CR is a MAXIMUM of three months gross pay - ie 18K - no reason to think CS will be any more generous!

In terms of VR, by law, you HAVE to do that before CR. However we can't be subject of CR because we are not employees. Hence the need for them to bring in new laws to enable them to bring in CS. They can make up the terms and conditions for CS because the legislation will be new - so they could say 'no need to VR before CS, you can go straight to CS...'.

Let's all ask ourselves why, when VR was ratified 18 months ago, absolutely no force anywhere has used it....because it is too expensive...it pays out a maximum 21 months pay (1 month for every year of service up to 21 years, and three month notice... so a maximum of 2 years pay...)

If they do action VR it will have to be REALLY soon and for officers with under 12 years service, that way they can bin them off by April 14, and the savings will have been effected by April 15...

Thus far they haven't had to use VR because reorganising and A19 have been sufficient. Trouble is, once you've reorganised, what are you going to do - reorgansie again? You can carry on using A19, but where do the rest of the savings come from?

The 'rush' to bring in CS now becomes clear...

The 'rush' to make cuts is, I suspect, because the conservatives know it will be their last hurrah....

Bottom line - VR protects the long in service because they are too expensive to lose so you can guess their applications will be denied...

CS is the danger for those long in service because they are the most expensive to keep...

Funny, in terms of VR, if you apply and are refused and then are made subject of CR, yougo on the terms of VR....you can bet no such protection will exist for those long in service trying to go on VR, who they refuse and then go on to CS!

All hypothetical and worst case scenario, obviously. Because, as we all know, CS has not been ratified and might never be :)

Edited by Picard999

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VRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVR

ITHINKMYHEADJUSTFELLOFF!

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Three cheers fro

VRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVRCRVSCSVR

ITHINKMYHEADJUSTFELLOFF!

Three cheers from the tories - 1 less pension to pay out :)

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Pic; you being the Oracle and everything, are we certain about the max 3 months payout for CS? I am aware of the route regarding VR - CR,  and that if you volunteer for VR and declined, you would be offered CR on the same terms.

 

Does the same not apply for the VS/CS route? 

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Picard I'm afraid I think your are wrong cs is 3 months notice then compensation of 1 months pay for each year of service up to 12 months, for VR is 3 months notice and 1 months pay per year of service up to 21 months pay as based on the civil service redundancy schemes.  This does not take into account those who are pensionable age where there are differing rules.  If I am wrong then Im sorry and could you direct me to the information you got that from. 

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VS doesn't exist - it would be an oxymoron or contradiction in terms...

As for the relationship between VR and CS - it is untested as CS doesn't exist. It is a Tory / Winsor invention for the police - it will need primary legislation and new police regs - if they can get it through parliament it can look like anything they want...

The minutes from PAT negotiations show the panel were disturbed by HMGs indecent haste to bring in CS?

What was the rush asked the panel?

Where were the police with VR?

Shouldn't VR be used first?

How was A19 going?

If CS was a latent power and to be used as a last resort only, what was the rush!

All these things the official side couldn't answer...

Hence the delay.

Decision July 24 - that'll be 'we disagree'. It'll go to arbitration, then a decision by next April by T.May...then a year to rush it through parliament, ready for 2015 financial year.

CR under the civil service scheme is maximum six months pay (not three - typo above) - why would CS be more?

If they were planning to VR before they used CS then they wouldn't need CS because there would be a stampede...the fact that they urgently want CS suggests they have no intention of using VR...as does the fact that it has gone unused so far...

All IMHO, DYOR, don't eat yellow snow. CS has yet to be ratified and some believe it never will be :)

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Croaks,

You are talking about CR, not CS. CS does not exist yet...we CANNOT be made redundant...yet.

My suggestions re CS are based on the assumption it won't be as attractive as CR, for obvious reasons.

We agree on VR and have seen the figures - they are cast in stone.

Civil service CR varies - there is more than 1 scheme. I know which one the government would choose to base CS on..

Edited by Picard999

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Its funny that HMG want cuts to the police and critiscise the wage bill as being the largest cost when we are largely a labour intensive concern.  At the same time politicians keep increasing the layers of government from devolved parliaments (which require both more MPs and more civil servants), to more local assemblies, to PCC's and their vastly inflated portfolio of staff, which all involve increases in the numbers and therefore the expense of the people involved.  They couldn't even agree on cutting the number of MP's in the UK yet they are happy to cut everyone else!

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Winsor has always made reference to the British Transport Police having a system of compulsory severance in place. ( as far as I am aware they have still not had to use it, even in these times of austerity)  I would imagine if redundancy / severance is brought in for us it would be similar. ( don't ask me what BTP's redundancy system is ..I have no idea :(

 

Just recently I have been stunned by the amount of officers being sacked in my Force BCU due to acts of utter stupidity. I'm actually fearing redundancy less and less these days as their seems to be a constant flow of officers who are just potting themselves and getting chucked out ??  When we start getting new recruits on worse terms and conditions you wonder if that number is going to increase further !

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So,

A bit of digging around re VR, CR, CS.

I'm told the fed's stance at discussions is

VR - maximum 1 months pay per year of service, plus 3 months notice (total max 2 years gross pay taxable)

Cs - maximum 1 months pay per year of service, plus 3 months notice (total 15 months gross pay taxable)

This tapers down if you are near pension age and crashes if you are beyond it

The fed stance is that it would be 'fair play' to offer VR before CS

(but as it is uncharted territory, there is no precedent)

Decision / update July 24th along with a host of other W2 recs

Next important date is June 26th - decision re 2015/16 spending review...

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