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New Pay Scales


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#141 John101999

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 06:33 PM

They might move you from pay point 5 on the old to pay point 6 on the new scale.

This was exactly what the PCSOs were talking about today, the ones who are joining up for PC, as they want to know when they will break even with existing pay. Many are at the top of their scale £26,700 and joining on £19K, it will take them 5yrs to match that amount......... Some are asking is it worth joining!

#142 The Highway Man

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 06:41 PM

We've had the a similar problem in the Highways Agency, Prior to the pay freeze, for the first 5 years we were supposed to get an incremental pay increase on top of the annual pay rise. In reality, every year, they gave us the increment but removed the bottom step of the scale so new starters were on the same pay as guys who had served 4 or 5 years. Our unions done sod all about it!!!  :diablo:



#143 SAINTS

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 06:42 PM

The way i read it is as follows :- 

 

If your on pay point 4 when the freeze ends in April 2014 you will go to pay point 5.

 

Then April 2015 you will move to pay point 8.

 

Then April 2016 you will move to pay point 10.


Edited by SAINTS, 25 April 2013 - 06:44 PM.


#144 fatsteak

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 06:47 PM

This new payscale is starting to look very expensive to me. It was supposed to be a starting pay of 19,000 and this appears to be being manipulated by various forces to up it to £23000 in some cases. That would mean a rise from £23,000 to £36,500 in just 7 years in some forces. Looks too generous and costly to me...somethings not right ..there's more to this ?



#145 John101999

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 07:41 PM

The way i read it is as follows :-

If your on pay point 4 when the freeze ends in April 2014 you will go to pay point 5.

Then April 2015 you will move to pay point 8.

Then April 2016 you will move to pay point 10.


Saint

This is what you mean then, the last Column is what you are proposing and missing out the points with the xxxxxx: is this what you mean?


On commencing Service£23,259 last joiners were Sept 2012
1 £25,962.
2 £27,471 (a). 2013
3 £29,148. 2014
4 £30,066. 2015
5 £31,032. 2016. 2014
6 £31,917. 2017. Xxxxxx
7 £32,703. 2018. Xxxxxx
8 £33,753. 2019. 2015
9 £35,796. 2020 xxxxxx
10 £36,519 (B). 2021. 2016

#146 John101999

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 08:15 PM

This new payscale is starting to look very expensive to me. It was supposed to be a starting pay of 19,000 and this appears to be being manipulated by various forces to up it to £23000 in some cases. That would mean a rise from £23,000 to £36,500 in just 7 years in some forces. Looks too generous and costly to me...somethings not right ..there's more to this ?


Bring in 5yr contracts and then get rid, no one will earn more than £27K ...........

#147 SAINTS

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 08:27 PM

Saint

This is what you mean then, the last Column is what you are proposing and missing out the points with the xxxxxx: is this what you mean?


On commencing Service£23,259 last joiners were Sept 2012
1 £25,962.
2 £27,471 (a). 2013
3 £29,148. 2014
4 £30,066. 2015
5 £31,032. 2016. 2014
6 £31,917. 2017. Xxxxxx
7 £32,703. 2018. Xxxxxx
8 £33,753. 2019. 2015
9 £35,796. 2020 xxxxxx
10 £36,519 ( B). 2021. 2016

 

Yes Pal.

 

If you look at the link i have put above it's written in Winsor part 2.



#148 John101999

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 09:02 PM


You could be right, that would mean you would get top pay in 9 yrs from start. The year behind you will get it in 8yrs and then 7yrs....... This will equal a new start in 2013 getting top pay 2019/20.

This means that you get more money earlier in service, pay more money into your pension for more years service and gain a greater average pension as you are working more years........., will the government actually save money in wages with this set up. I hope they have worked it out.

Looks like a hell of a lot of officers are going to reach top pay, all at the same time!

Almost forgot the government's trump card....... Skills test! ............. If every officer passes the government will not save any money!!!

#149 Pigman

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 10:05 PM

Well on a money note my payslip today shows my pension payment is virtually the same as my tax per month after the recent increase !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

If the Tax hadn't gone down the pension per month would be more than my tax !

 

ALL YOU NON POLICE LOOK AT YOUR PAYSLIP AND SEE HOW YOU WOULD BE EFFECTED IF YOURS LOOKED THE SAME .

 

My take home pay is poor and i have nearly 30 years service . I do not know how others cope and i don't even have a mortgage


NEVER START AN ARGUMENT UNLESS YOU KNOW YOU'RE RIGHT

#150 John101999

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 10:45 PM

I looked at my last pay slip and I earned £4,500 gross less than last year as a result of Winsor. This is the first time in 16yrs where I have received less than the previous year.

#151 Picard999

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 05:12 AM

You could be right, that would mean you would get top pay in 9 yrs from start. The year behind you will get it in 8yrs and then 7yrs....... This will equal a new start in 2013 getting top pay 2019/20.
This means that you get more money earlier in service, pay more money into your pension for more years service and gain a greater average pension as you are working more years........., will the government actually save money in wages with this set up. I hope they have worked it out.
Looks like a hell of a lot of officers are going to reach top pay, all at the same time!
Almost forgot the government's trump card....... Skills test! ............. If every officer passes the government will not save any money!!!

John,

It is not one test, it is two.....

Of those who could, only 30 odd percent will pass the basic threshold test at around 24k, of those only 30 odd percent will pass the specialist test. They will never get past 24k....the 'few' will move on up the scale, and then hit the brick wall of the second test. Could well be that a maximum of 15% of all bobbies ever make top whack PC having passed both tests...

I base the numbers on:

Basic test: Huge numbers of folk not taking the test (because they think they won't pass), and of those taking it, half failing...
Specialist test: Huge numbers not taking the test, as their post is not eligible, and of those taking it, half failing...

It looks great on paper, but the reality will bite (hard)

Edited by Picard999, 26 April 2013 - 05:13 AM.


#152 John101999

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 07:24 AM

Which rings it back to the original discussions with PCSOs, when will their take home pay break even with their existing wage £26700, if they join up as a PC this Sept........ They may never then............. I bet they have not considered this and no one is saying anything about it.

Why would a PCSO want to join up then!

#153 Daza

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 07:45 AM

Why would a PCSO want to join?

Feeling of authority
Cos it looks good to their mates and family
Cos they watch a lot of cop programmes
Cos they can 'LOCK PEOPLE UP'
Cos they believe the pay is good.

There's a lot of PCSO's in for a massive shock, but they don't realise til after a year or 2

Wait til they are single crewed etc. etc,

Edited by Daza, 26 April 2013 - 07:46 AM.


#154 John101999

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 08:03 AM

From a money point of view a PCSO will need £30K to take home their same pay, as of today. They are joining on £19-£22K, loss of £4-6K gross and £8K net, taking pension 13.5%, they pay 3,5% now. They could be stuck on £24 or £31K for the rest of their service if they fail the tests...........

No wonder our force is recruiting internal only and getting them through as fast as possible, before people have thought it through fully.

The more people the force signs up internally, the more savings they could make.......

#155 fatsteak

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 10:14 AM

From a money point of view a PCSO will need £30K to take home their same pay, as of today. They are joining on £19-£22K, loss of £4-6K gross and £8K net, taking pension 13.5%, they pay 3,5% now. They could be stuck on £24 or £31K for the rest of their service if they fail the tests...........

No wonder our force is recruiting internal only and getting them through as fast as possible, before people have thought it through fully.

The more people the force signs up internally, the more savings they could make.......

 

Skills tests aside, I just  wonder just how many of these PCSO's and Specials making the jump to Constable will crash and burn during the initial training. Its a big step between PCSO and doing the job of a Con. Have they all got what it takes to get through the gruelling law theory and exams which Winsor has increased the pass mark to. What happends if they fail to make the grade?  can they go back to being a CSO ?  could end up with no job at all !  hope they know what they are doing. 



#156 John101999

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 02:14 PM

Nope, they can't go back as I believe part of the funds are being used to recruit PCs, that is why it is internal only ie taking on 120 officers in the next 12 months. All people will know if they are joining by the end of this month but they might not get in until 12 months time.

The ring fencing of PCSOs has ended and it is up to each force how they spend the money. There are no min PCSO targets now.

The thing that I have just learnt from the above posts was the test at 3yrs, never knew about that and the ones I work with have never mentioned it. I bet they know nothing about it....... Time will tell.

#157 Picard999

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 03:37 PM



John,

Knowledge is power! Seriously, I printed it all off and read every word. Even those in the know have no idea of what Winsor has planned. The picture is only just taking shape...

#158 John101999

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 04:52 PM

John,

Knowledge is power! Seriously, I printed it all off and read every word. Even those in the know have no idea of what Winsor has planned. The picture is only just taking shape...


You certainly know your stuff, can't fault you.

This must be the Finance Director's master plan in our Force.......... the more I think about it, the more I wonder why it was internal applicants only?

#159 Picard999

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 05:25 PM

Nope, they can't go back as I believe part of the funds are being used to recruit PCs, that is why it is internal only ie taking on 120 officers in the next 12 months. All people will know if they are joining by the end of this month but they might not get in until 12 months time.
The ring fencing of PCSOs has ended and it is up to each force how they spend the money. There are no min PCSO targets now.
The thing that I have just learnt from the above posts was the test at 3yrs, never knew about that and the ones I work with have never mentioned it. I bet they know nothing about it....... Time will tell.


West Mids are recruiting 50 PCSOs - Internally, by losing staff from other roles. It isn't an increase of 50, it's replacing 50 lost over the last few years. This way, visibility is increased AND money is saved. Quite clever, really.

#160 The Highway Man

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 06:19 PM

Well on a money note my payslip today shows my pension payment is virtually the same as my tax per month after the recent increase !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

If the Tax hadn't gone down the pension per month would be more than my tax !

 

ALL YOU NON POLICE LOOK AT YOUR PAYSLIP AND SEE HOW YOU WOULD BE EFFECTED IF YOURS LOOKED THE SAME .

 

My take home pay is poor and i have nearly 30 years service . I do not know how others cope and i don't even have a mortgage

Since the departmental pay freeze across the civil service, my outgoings have risen 30% whilst my pay has almost stood still. Apart from a derisory £250 annual increase (before tax) meanwhile, my annual pension contribution has gone up £288. Even with the tax going down, I'm still worse off, as any money saved there has gone to other household bills that have rocketed!!! :(






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