Yella

New Pay Scales

168 posts in this topic

Evening,

Those applying to become PCs have had an e-mail to let them know that the new pay scales (£19k starting salary but pay scale 7 being top whack) come into effect on 1st April 2013.

Does anyone know if that is across the board for all PCs? Surely they can't have different cops on different scales as that would lead to some cops being on more money than colleagues with longer service.

While I sympathise with the new PCs being on £19k, for those of us currently on pay scale 7 it represents a massive pay hike. Our federation didn't know when I last asked.

Cheers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A new payscale for new constables based on the official side's proposal. This means that the starting salary for a new entrant with no policing qualifications or experience will be £19,000. A constable with a relevant qualification or experience as a special constable or a police community support officer will be £22,000 and forces will also be given greater discretion to vary pay this amount depending on local recruitment needs. This differs from Tom Winsor's recommendation which had less flexibility and stated that the salary for new entrants with relevant experience should be £21,000. The new pay scale will also be shorter than the existing one, so that officers will be able to reach the top point of £36,519 in seven years rather than ten.

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/police/police-reform/winsor-review/police-arbitration-tribunal/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So if officer A joins on 31st March 2013 and officer B joins on 1st April 2013 then in 7 years time officer A will be on £31k and officer B will be on £36.5k?

Obviously officer A will have started on more but to have that situation at the 7 year point seems ridiculous.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In truth it's all a total mess. New pay scale coming in but what about the increment freeze? As it stands new recruits aren't frozen for their first two rises but after that you are.

Never have we had such a fragmented pay system for the same job. Currently a twelve year pc will be on 36k plus crtp because they reached the top of their scale and crtp before the freeze. You then have a ten year pc on 33k a year and no crtp because they got their pay froze at eight years service. Then you have new recruits coming and getting their first couple of increments before they get frozen too, for what looks like being another two years.

Then on top of that you have the twenty year pc who has full pension protection, housing allowance of two hundred quid a month, top rate pc pay of 36k and crtp.

Now I am not criticising those individual officers but this new pay scale, the increment freeze and the cuts are making a mockery of the salary system. We have pc's doing the same job and some are getting thousands of pounds a year more. It's crazy and it's a huge reason why the increment freeze needs to stop immediately.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You said it DCEJ, total unfairness

And if they extend the increment freeze, more unfairness

Show me any other job that has the same unfairness?

Accept people getting housing allowance, I knew I wouldn't get it when I joined, but extended Increment freezes when colleagues have already achieved top rate is totally unfair!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Will this have an impact on those who are already officers?

"Current police officers will not see any change to their pay as a result of this recommendation. They will progress to the next point in the new scale which is higher than their current salary based on satisfactory performance."

The "huge" issue here is the increment freeze. It's not going anywhere fast and is going to cause mayhem for new recruits and those still in their first ten years of service.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If i am reading this right is it saying anybody on the old scheme will move on to the new one and go to the next pay point from the one they are on now?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If i am reading this right is it saying anybody on the old scheme will move on to the new one and go to the next pay point from the one they are on now?

In essence that may be correct but with an increment freeze that's likely to run until at least 2015 what it actually means is you will stay on the wage you've been on since 2011.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In essence that may be correct but with an increment freeze that's likely to run until at least 2015 what it actually means is you will stay on the wage you've been on since 2011.

I'm trying to stay positive mate.

I believe the freeze will end in 2014, and that most of us will get embroiled in this new pay scale thing from 2016 onwards!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The "huge" issue here is the increment freeze. It's not going anywhere fast and is going to cause mayhem for new recruits and those still in their first ten years of service.

There was a suggestion by Winsor that the old and new pay scales should be merged in 2016. The question that needs to be explored by the Fed, is if that merger of pay scales does go ahead,would it mean Officers on the old scale would move across to a pay point on the new scale. What impact the current increment freeze would have on such a move. For example let us look at an officer currently frozen at pay point 4 (£30,066). If the increment freeze is extended through to 2016, and the pay scales are then merged in 2016, is it the intention of this Govt that Officers subjected to the increment freeze would move pay point 4 on the new scale (£25,000), a drop in salary of over £5000? That would be hugely unfair, and fundamentally wrong on so many levels. I would suggest that Officers subjected to the freeze should be paid under the conditions they signed up to, and any changes should be applied to new recruits only. New recruits know that they are going onto the new scale, so to measure themselves against Officers on a previous scale would be a none starter as far as I am concerned (very similar to the Housing allowance issue back in 1994).

Current Scale

On commencing Service £23,259

On completion of initial training £25,962

2 £27,471 (a)

3 £29,148

4 £30,066

5 £31,032

6 £31,917

7 £32,703

8 £33,753

9 £35,796

10 £36,519

New Scale

0 £19,000

1 £22,000 (Depending on skills, experience or local recruitment needs)

2 £23,000

3 £24,000

4 £25,000

5 £27,000

6 £31,032

7 £36,519

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have emailed my local FED branch for clarification and hopefully will get a reply ASAP and to be fair they have always got back. However this is a prime example of why the FED are crap. They would rather talk about rubbish instead of informing us of things that effect us in a massive way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They will do what they did years ago when the pay scales moved from 15 to 10 points, and withdraw points at top & middle of the scale. It took me 13 yrs to get top pay.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Would guarantee the fed have no idea about the above and because it doesn't impact on them it will be something that us up for discussion with the government at some point in the future.

If however the government were proposing on removing housing allowance you can guarantee it would be an urgent issue and we'd all be being urged to strike tomorrow.

If the pension was removed for those in the final ten I think the world would end because the fed would authorise nuclear war.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Would guarantee the fed have no idea about the above and because it doesn't impact on them it will be something that us up for discussion with the government at some point in the future.

If however the government were proposing on removing housing allowance you can guarantee it would be an urgent issue and we'd all be being urged to strike tomorrow.

If the pension was removed for those in the final ten I think the world would end because the fed would authorise nuclear war.

I am pretty sure that I read that the Fed are in discussion with the PNB now, with a decision before July...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Never have we had such a fragmented pay system for the same job. Currently a twelve year pc will be on 36k plus crtp because they reached the top of their scale and crtp before the freeze. You then have a ten year pc on 33k a year and no crtp because they got their pay froze at eight years service. Then you have new recruits coming and getting their first couple of increments before they get frozen too, for what looks like being another two years.

Then on top of that you have the twenty year pc who has full pension protection, housing allowance of two hundred quid a month, top rate pcpay of 36k and crtp.

Funnily enough Winsor said that it was unfair that two PCs turning up to the same job could be paid a vastly different amount, and that he wanted to address that as part of his review. However as DCEJ has pointed out you can see what the end result of that was when combined with Government dogma and an overwhelming desire to cut costs! Reform, what reform, the end result has been a way of cutting costs pure and simple!

Anyway its now been a week since the budget and the dreaded mention of further freezes to 'progression pay' so has anyone got any idea yet if that will apply to Police increments? In an ideal world the Fed have had a crack team on the case already and would have the answer, but in the real world they are probably still drafting their letter and will be looking for a suitable carrier pigeon to deliver it!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Current police officers will not see any change to their pay as a result of this recommendation. They will progress to the next point in the new scale which is higher than their current salary based on satisfactory performance."

That means everyone on the old point 5 would go to point 7 on the new scale, if they can't lose money and move upwards.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Recommendation 55 – Pay points 6, 7, and 9 should be removed from the existing

constables’ pay scale in April 2014, 2015, and 2016 respectively.

That would suggest that by April 2016 we'll all be on the new pay scale. So for me joining in 2005 I should be on top whack 2015 but with the two year freeze that became 2017. It'll now be 2016. A full year early than the original postponement. I am delighted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would seriously not get your hopes based out on some rough workings out above.

As I've said the pay system is a mess right now and the increment freeze is a huge contributer to that. I personally think that will be extended for another two years in 2014 and the only hope - feds words not mine - is the next government, presuming there is a new one in 2015, changes that. But by the time they come in they'll just see it as an easy way to save money and blame the old government.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When you take the pay scale for a Constable from appointment to top pay scale it is higher than a 2nd Lt. (£15,200 to £32,800 in the Army, and almost as much as a Captain. That makes our pay scale, even now, attractive. I think I know whose the public's sympathy would be with

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do they contribute to their pension? What's their length of service? Subsidised food? Subsidised housing? Free gyms?

Not really an effective comparison is it?

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would seriously not get your hopes based out on some rough workings out above.

As I've said the pay system is a mess right now and the increment freeze is a huge contributer to that. I personally think that will be extended for another two years in 2014 and the only hope - feds words not mine - is the next government, presuming there is a new one in 2015, changes that. But by the time they come in they'll just see it as an easy way to save money and blame the old government.

Mate, have you actually spoken to a Fed rep who has said the Increment freeze is to be extended?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.