Maverick22

Street Justice.

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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2129890/Inner-city-neighbourhoods-given-power-hold-street-courts-bid-tackle-gangs-feral-youths.html I'm sorry Ms May, but whose daft idea was this. Who is going to arrest these thugs etc, and bring them before these panels. Can anyone see your local thug taking much notice of his locals, and saying sorry, and showing remorse, I can see the thug getting revenge for being dragged infront of people whom he knows have been having a pop at him. Who is going to make them carry out repairs to damage etc, the Police, Probatiuon Service, PCSO's. From enqs I have made the Somerset version doesn't appear to be having much success. I suppose the next panel will be those wanting Sharia law allowed in the UK, so when we see anyone walking around with no hands we shall know it exists, or we see women stoned in public. The courts need to get really tough with these people, I always thought thats why we had Magistrates Courts to deal with these thugs, yobs, whatever you want to call them.

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Sorry.

Say what?

That is a s**t idea. There. I said it. In bold.

We have courts for that sort of thing. Proper criminal courts. If people think that the courts aren't doing the right job and punishing people enough, then make the magistrates and judges punish people properly. It really is that simple.

'Local justice' was dispensed by 'local people' a few years ago, but HMG decided that the local courts were too expensive so closed them. If people want 'local justice' then just reopen the bloody local magistrates courts again.

You'd think that if you were going to reinvent the wheel, you'd do a better job of it the second time round, wouldn't you?

Every time I hear stuff coming out of Government minister's mouths over the past couple of years, it's either been totally s**t or just a precursor to being total s**t. But said so that 'middle Britain' think that HMG really is addressing issues with some tough talking 'action'.

Words are not action, ministers.

And the action that you are doing is costing me a sodding fortune. Thanks for that. My country is safe in your hands? No. It isn't.

It'd be safer if we made decisions based on the roll of a 20-sided dice. Wait. That's probably what goes on.

I know I sound negative and cynical, but that's how I am, so it's how I come across.

My solution. Re-open the local town magistrate courts and allow magistrates to impose 'proper' punishments. Make sure those punishments are actually enforced and complied with.

And for f's sake, stop listening to bleeding heart stories about how they can only afford to pay back 50p a week to repay their fine. They don't sodding pay them. They can buy fags and beer, but not a fine - what does that tell you?

How about link up with HMRC and have the money taken out, at source, via the tax system. People mess with HMRC at their peril......

I am sick and bloody tired of Theresa May and David Cameron. I'd be sick and tired of Nick Herbert, but we don't see him, do we? He's away somewhere scheming about how he can take even more money off me. I'll be buying my own uniform next.

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I think the way the maul has presented the idea is prejudicial. If a criminal offence has been committed, then fine, let's see the magixstrates at work, but if it's just a matter of bad behaviour then an early intervention could work, especially if it's independent of the police. I saw a harassment trial where a mother and 16 year old daughter were convicted of harrassing her erstwhile frined. \it was basically playground meanness whicvh had got well out of hand, and the mother 32) was as immature as her daughter. I thought at the time that this sort of thing should have been dealt with round a table, partly because the prosecution seemed to only focus on one aspect and for the sake of justice it would have been better to know all the interactions of these two children and pathetic adult. As it was, it had to come to court because the victim was very scared... it had got way out of control by then. So the mother ended up with a criminal record, the daughter had it added to her growing list, and the victim... who knows how neighbours would feel about her actions in this matter.

Perhaps it would not have listened to a panel, perhaps it would still have escalated until it reached court... the mother seemed a very vindictive sort. But it would have been worth a try.

I'd want to see what these proposals are, examine them properly before dismissing them on the skewed report from the Maul.

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Sorry.

Say what?

That is a s**t idea. There. I said it. In bold.

We have courts for that sort of thing. Proper criminal courts. If people think that the courts aren't doing the right job and punishing people enough, then make the magistrates and judges punish people properly. It really is that simple.

'Local justice' was dispensed by 'local people' a few years ago, but HMG decided that the local courts were too expensive so closed them. If people want 'local justice' then just reopen the bloody local magistrates courts again.

You'd think that if you were going to reinvent the wheel, you'd do a better job of it the second time round, wouldn't you?

Every time I hear stuff coming out of Government minister's mouths over the past couple of years, it's either been totally s**t or just a precursor to being total s**t. But said so that 'middle Britain' think that HMG really is addressing issues with some tough talking 'action'.

Words are not action, ministers.

And the action that you are doing is costing me a sodding fortune. Thanks for that. My country is safe in your hands? No. It isn't.

It'd be safer if we made decisions based on the roll of a 20-sided dice. Wait. That's probably what goes on.

I know I sound negative and cynical, but that's how I am, so it's how I come across.

My solution. Re-open the local town magistrate courts and allow magistrates to impose 'proper' punishments. Make sure those punishments are actually enforced and complied with.

And for f's sake, stop listening to bleeding heart stories about how they can only afford to pay back 50p a week to repay their fine. They don't sodding pay them. They can buy fags and beer, but not a fine - what does that tell you?

How about link up with HMRC and have the money taken out, at source, via the tax system. People mess with HMRC at their peril......

I am sick and bloody tired of Theresa May and David Cameron. I'd be sick and tired of Nick Herbert, but we don't see him, do we? He's away somewhere scheming about how he can take even more money off me. I'll be buying my own uniform next.

Would you please stop giving them ideas.
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M&MBM, based on your previous posts, I see you as an honourable, fair minded responsible person who has been brought up to respect your elders, the law and it's agents. You will, no doubt take responsibility for your actions and should you transgress you would, I'm sure, accept your punishment. You would also, I'm sure, do everything within your power to ensure you did not upset others by "playground behaviour" as described above.

BUT .... there are so many people who don't give a sh*t for anyone but themselves and their clones and who have already had "interventions" and advice regarding their behaviour who will do jack all to change "cos it's their yooman rite, innit" and anyway, "what are you going to do about it?" They don't give a stuff about the police and courts we have now so if another "body" challenges them and their behaviour, do you think they will really care?

Sorry for being so cynical but unless we return to a society where no means no and bad behaviour is punished before we can consider any "rehabilitation", we're goosed.

Oh, and what's to say that the "local justice group" isn't simply made up of the the biggest crook in the area backed up by their hardman mates - or the person with the most influence financially or business wise, or ..... rant, rant ...

ITYOs' solution is right ... only HMG won't fund the local magistrates courts and this "idea" is one more step to HMG absolving themselves of all responsibility for the wellbeing of the populace (that ain't millionaires in their gated communities).

....NURSEY! where are you .......... and my meds ....

Edited by dibble

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I think the way the maul has presented the idea is prejudicial. If a criminal offence has been committed, then fine, let's see the magixstrates at work, but if it's just a matter of bad behaviour then an early intervention could work, especially if it's independent of the police. I saw a harassment trial where a mother and 16 year old daughter were convicted of harrassing her erstwhile frined. \it was basically playground meanness whicvh had got well out of hand, and the mother 32) was as immature as her daughter. I thought at the time that this sort of thing should have been dealt with round a table, partly because the prosecution seemed to only focus on one aspect and for the sake of justice it would have been better to know all the interactions of these two children and pathetic adult. As it was, it had to come to court because the victim was very scared... it had got way out of control by then. So the mother ended up with a criminal record, the daughter had it added to her growing list, and the victim... who knows how neighbours would feel about her actions in this matter.

Perhaps it would not have listened to a panel, perhaps it would still have escalated until it reached court... the mother seemed a very vindictive sort. But it would have been worth a try.

I'd want to see what these proposals are, examine them properly before dismissing them on the skewed report from the Maul.

Isn't this simply a form of open restorative justice?

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A stupid idea thought up by stupid people.

The courts don't even deal with these people in the way they should be dealt with. They already see the punishment they get from courts as a joke, I can only begin to imagine what they'll be thinking of any punishment they get from a local justice panel. They'll be rubbing their hands with glee at the prospect of a getting a little slap on the wrist and told to stop being naughty.

Next thing you know they'll be suggesting bringing back the stocks - although actually maybe that wouldn't be such a bad idea...

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A stupid idea thought up by stupid people.

The courts don't even deal with these people in the way they should be dealt with. They already see the punishment they get from courts as a joke, I can only begin to imagine what they'll be thinking of any punishment they get from a local justice panel. They'll be rubbing their hands with glee at the prospect of a getting a little slap on the wrist and told to stop being naughty.

Next thing you know they'll be suggesting bringing back the stocks - although actually maybe that wouldn't be such a bad idea...

Now that I would support.

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This is, as someone has pointed out, a form of restorative justice. 'Reintegrative shaming', i.e. shaming offenders in front of their peers, has its roots in Japan, as it's used over there with some degree of success.

I must confess to being more open minded than most about stuff like this. Prison is an expensive and not necessarily particularly effective way of stopping repeat offending, at least, not over the long term, so I guess an alternative has to be sought. Whilst it has some effect in Japan, it is fair to say that they have a different culture over there, a much more 'family orientated' culture which makes this form of justice more successful. Whether it would have the same effect over here remains to be seen.

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But the Japanese have a very active perception of family honour, Cheese-Puff, so of course it would work for them. As Dibble has pointed out, the people who usually end up in court for their bad behaviour lack this.

I'd want to see the details before I'd dismiss this out of hand, but I'd also want to know how they think it's going to work? How is blame to be ascribed? On someone's say-so? If so, that's risky. Nay, stupid. You'd have to try them properly. And there we're back to the Magistrates' Court which was what their original function was, isn't it? As ITYO said.

If it is a type of restorative justice then it might work, but obviously it won't work all the time for everyone.

Perhaps it's to sdeal with minor crim damage or ASB, in which case, being made to scrub off the damage might do very well.

The stocks sounds like a great idea, and if that were permitted by this street justice thing, then I'm all for it.

I'd also like to see magistrates able to give convicts a good bollocking and a resorative sentence, instead of being bound by guidelines. I'd like to see convicts set to work to pay off debts like compensation until they're allowed back to their families, if they say they can't afford their fines. I have long said that prisons should be attached to recycling centres so they can spend their waking hours productively sorting out waste. I can think of a fair number of jobs they could be doing (ppiece work, natch) to pay off such debt.

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I tend to agree. There is no 'one size fits all' type of justice. Community service has its place, as does prison for certain things. Like you, I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand until some form of evidence has been gained as to how successful it is, What I don't want to see is vast quantities of cash and resources continually poured into something that has been found after a while, not to work, as so often happens, especially in this job.

It is a problem that the people who end up in court are usually those who lack family honour, though of course 're integrative shaming' does not necessarily have to be family orientated, it can revolve around peers etc. I still maintain though that more effort should be focused towards dealing with stuff like this at a far earlier stage, parenting etc. However that's a whole different argument.

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Fair points all, but let's not fall for the hype, take it as a serious prososal and actually start discussing this as a potential option, eventually leading to some tweaking and it's eventual inception in one form or another......(though no doubt it will come to pass)...someone needs the public to rise up and say 'Enough!'....(can see that coming in our case in around 18 months time I reckon)....

The reason it most likely will come to pass is the same reason as this country had the 'prison ships' off the South coast over a decade ago, a relatively recent 'revised 2nd tier' of juvenile and adult caution alternatives and the almost abused Restorative Justice system..........namely money....

'Austerity' is the perfect catalyst to punt out soft options, 'cos as we all know it costs twice as much to keep the little darlings in prison as it does to put them up at The Dorchester.....

God forbid we actually put them in the clink for mugging old ladies........

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Fair points all, but let's not fall for the hype, take it as a serious prososal and actually start discussing this as a potential option, eventually leading to some tweaking and it's eventual inception in one form or another......(though no doubt it will come to pass)...someone needs the public to rise up and say 'Enough!'....(can see that coming in our case in around 18 months time I reckon)....

The reason it most likely will come to pass is the same reason as this country had the 'prison ships' off the South coast over a decade ago, a relatively recent 'revised 2nd tier' of juvenile and adult caution alternatives and the almost abused Restorative Justice system..........namely money....

'Austerity' is the perfect catalyst to punt out soft options, 'cos as we all know it costs twice as much to keep the little darlings in prison as it does to put them up at The Dorchester.....

God forbid we actually put them in the clink for mugging old ladies........

That gives me an idea. How about putting them up at the Dorchester unless they commit an offence, when they promptly get slung out?

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In some Arab countries they chop your arm off if you are caught stealing. Whilst you rarely see someone with one arm chopped off -- you never see anyone with both arms chopped off !!!

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