Old 'n' Sweaty

Winsor, the other bit

Recommended Posts

Quite rightly the main focus on this report has been the pay, conditions, pension, recruitment and all that other shizzle being robustly discussed elswhere, so I thought I'd offer the chance for a bit of a breather and look at the other bit, the apparent sugar coating or whatever you'd like to call it.

If it is possible to keep this thread on a different tack from the other then that will be great, if not it may get a bit samey, so, do your best please. :rolleyes:

My questions are simple; Do you think that the analogy with other areas of work is right? Do you feel white collar, blue collar or have you never given it a moments thought? If you do feel white or blue, do you think that the comparison changes with rank? Do you feel that intelligence is a fundamental part of the make up of a police officer and do you feel that 'A' levels or degrees are the only way of demonstrating intellectual ability? Do you think that Winsor understands what it is that motivates people to become police officers? Does obtaining a higher level of educational merit mean that you are automatically someone who seeks to advance themselves and, therefore, if everyone who joins has that trait surely everyone will be trying for promotion, so who stays at the grass roots?

Hopefully you get my drift, a few questions to look at what policing is rather than what we get for doing it. I shall sit back and see where we go and maybe add my twopenn'orth in due course.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Quite rightly the main focus on this report has been the pay, conditions, pension, recruitment and all that other shizzle being robustly discussed elswhere, so I thought I'd offer the chance for a bit of a breather and look at the other bit, the apparent sugar coating or whatever you'd like to call it.

If it is possible to keep this thread on a different tack from the other then that will be great, if not it may get a bit samey, so, do your best please. :rolleyes:

My questions are simple; Do you think that the analogy with other areas of work is right? Do you feel white collar, blue collar or have you never given it a moments thought? If you do feel white or blue, do you think that the comparison changes with rank? Do you feel that intelligence is a fundamental part of the make up of a police officer and do you feel that 'A' levels or degrees are the only way of demonstrating intellectual ability? Do you think that Winsor understands what it is that motivates people to become police officers? Does obtaining a higher level of educational merit mean that you are automatically someone who seeks to advance themselves and, therefore, if everyone who joins has that trait surely everyone will be trying for promotion, so who stays at the grass roots?

Hopefully you get my drift, a few questions to look at what policing is rather than what we get for doing it. I shall sit back and see where we go and maybe add my twopenn'orth in due course.

If that happens, we will close this thread. Duplication causes confusion and is not permitted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I work with a colleague of equal rank doing the same role. He is a brilliant officer and is very switched on. He left school at 16 and went into industry before joining the cops. I joined later on life with a degree and subsequently gained a masters degree (MSc). Just because I am more academically qualified than him does not make me any better than him, or anyone else for that matter.

Policing is not an academic discipline per se. We are not asked to make critical decisions in the rarefied atmosphere of a lecture theatre or debating society, we have to make decisions in challenging physical and emotional circumstances. We don't work in the privileged, and allegedly civilised parliamentary environment. People don't call the police for the purpose of having a chat. We don't deal with rational people, and as such we rely on a different skill set - we rely on communication skills, empathy, judgement and street skills to name a few. No amount of academic qualifications can equip you dealing with the public.

The British legal system is fiercely adversarial and clearly we need to be able to understand the law and need to be able to write and talk convincingly about what we have done. This is perhaps where I think that we let ourselves down. Some statements I have seen contain horrific spelling and grammatical errors. I have seen necessary, investigation, arrest and caution spelled incorrectly. So I would argue that higher literacy standards should be applied to new recruits, if we ever see any more....

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I want to say that in my class at bruche, out of a class of 16, 11 were graduates. So the notion that they are all either promotion seekers or career PCs is wrong. There is not necessarily a direct correlation between academic qualifications and promotion aspirations. The only slight advantage a graduate may have is that they are more likely to have developed better study skills that will help them get to grips with the promotion exam.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Generally, I think............

White collar workers don't get their hands dirty (getting toner on your hands doesn't count).

Blue collar workers do.

I get my hands plenty dirty.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, I left school at the ripe old age of 16, worked an aprenticeship, ended up joining the forces at 18, then leaving and becoming a bodyguard, before getting bored and joining the job.

So, no sixth form, no college, no university, and still managing to be a decent member of a team, alongside all those who did go to university and getting as many qualifications as possible.

You can't teach life exprience at uni, simple fact! The majority of people I have met in the job who have joined straight from uni have been great in their own merits, great at the paperwork and usually great at the practical side. But there are those who will take longer than others to cultivate the cynical attitude (trst nobody) that will usually stop you from being injured or taken for a ride.

Overall, I think we all bring our own atributes to the job we do, and eventually find our niche in the job dependant upon our particualar skills and mindset.

I do think that it will change the job however, if they decide that everybody has to have a certain amount of degrees or qualifications etc... You will lose the skillsets of the people coming from the forces background, or other areas of life where they weren't required to study for years on end, but rather got out there and experienced the gritty end of life.

Basicaly, if the recomendations go through, the job's f***ed.... But then it always has been! :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would add that just because someone has served in the forces, it does not mean that they will automatically be a good cop. I have worked with some great cops who ex forces, but I have worked with some terrible cops who are ex forces. The notion that you can swap one uniform seamlessly for another is flawed IMHO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Having tutored 11 through the 10 week phase and 5 or 6 through the remedial 5 extra weeks it was certainly a very mixed bag.

The pen picture given by training school and recruitment to their antecedents bore very little on the person stood in front of me on the first shift.Their back ground didn't really matter too much and they stood or in deed fell on their own merits.

The younger ones usually 23 or below could be a bit giddy and had to be reined in.

I stopped that role in 05 before becomming a permanent trainer up to Dec 08 at division.We had loads through the system with a 25-30% drop out rate in the first 2 years.

This was due to two reasons the usual shock horror and hatred of the work and conditions and secondly they were made to do a foundation degree in policing in their own time.The syallbus was set by ex social workers/probation workers who had joined the uni specifically to administer this course.People with masters degrees found themselves failing foundation standard work where they had never failed anything in their lives before.

The job is a very steep learning curve for those who are not very streetwise they don't stay that way for long.Those who join from the forces either settle straight in or can't accept at PC level experience is everything not age or previous rank in HMF.Usually it's the former.

Those from middle/upper class liberal families especially the females are the ones who struggle despite often having excellent qualifications.The job is too rough around the edges for them.

Pre Winsor the turnover rate was very high as above.It certainly will not encourage the best candidates to join.I would be horrified if my children joined.

However the job can educate people and open doors. I joined with 3 O levels.The job have provided two degree course opportunities that can be transferred to civvy street and indirectly funded them.

So for that I have gratitude to the job.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would add that just because someone has served in the forces, it does not mean that they will automatically be a good cop. I have worked with some great cops who ex forces, but I have worked with some terrible cops who are ex forces. The notion that you can swap one uniform seamlessly for another is flawed IMHO.

I totally agree! In fact, the majority of squaddies would struggle to adapt to being a police officer. Not everyone can pass the entrance exams, and even then there are the massive differences between the jobs that a lot of guys would never be able to adapt to. Like not being able to use aggression, shock and awe to overcome evey situation! :P

Like you say, the transition from squaddie to copper isn't always a smooth one, but at least most of us who do make the transition bring certain atributes with us, such as discipline, puntuality and life experience! ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I totally agree! In fact, the majority of squaddies would struggle to adapt to being a police officer. Not everyone can pass the entrance exams, and even then there are the massive differences between the jobs that a lot of guys would never be able to adapt to. Like not being able to use aggression, shock and awe to overcome evey situation! :P

Like you say, the transition from squaddie to copper isn't always a smooth one, but at least most of us who do make the transition bring certain atributes with us, such as discipline, puntuality and life experience! ;)

As ex HMF myself, I agree.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.