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  1. 5 points
    I just got back last weekend from two weeks at home in Manchester. The area around the Arena is very familiar to me and i was round and about there a few times during my stay. I spent much of yesterday making sure my family and friends were safe; fortunately, they were. As Zulu' said, Manchester is a strong city; it is also a very diverse city and i am always heartened when I hear a broad Manc' accent spoken by someone who looks Asian, Chinese, African or from some other part of the globe - somehow, it seems to show the city we are - very international with historic ties to many places and a deep history of social justice and innovation - Emmeline Pankhust (a great x 4 relation) - a great emancipator, Tom Kilburn, Tommy Flowers and Alan Turing - the three leading lights in the development of the world's first computers; Messrs Rolls and Royce, A V Roe and many engineers who led the world; not forgetting our sport - Man United and Man City (not forgetting our most heroic foreign player - Bert Trautmann, a German former PoW who played the last 20 minutes of the 1956 Cup Final with a broken neck). That's the city we Mancs are proud to call home. To the families and friends of those killed or injured no words will ever put right their loss and hurt. How unfair that they should suffer because of the warped ideology of a few. For a family to be injured and also lose their Mum, an off-duty Police Officer, and for two Polish sisters to lose their parents seems incomprehensible. May they all Rest In Peace and families eventually be able to remember only the good times with their loved ones. GMP seem to be on top of the situation - arrests have also been made in Libya (the suicide bomber's brother and father). perhaps this atrocity could have been prevented if adequate resources were available - we will probably never know. What was obvious to me was that however slim the resources, on the night as people fled from the scene, men and women from GMP were running towards the unknown to provide whatever aid they could and uphold their oath of office.For that we can be very thankful and for the ambulance and fire crews and the NHS teams who are still working on some of the worst injuries. Manchester aand UK are at their best when backs are against the wall.
  2. 4 points
    I am posting a second message because I did not want to tarnish Elaine's memory with any other remarks. However, I think the time has come for firm action to be taken against the threat-within that exists in many of our big cities. In the short term, all immigration of young men, that is anyone who claims to be from 12 to 35, from Muslim countries must be halted until we can get a grip on the situation. Those on the watch-lists need to be dealt with - if they are not born in UK, they should be removed to their home country immediately - no appeals, no false-flag human rights crap. Remember, this current suicide scrote was born in UK of a Libyan father who himself was an Al Qaeda activist who got UK refugee status on the basis that he opposed Qaddafi; he's now back there working for the police in one of the Islamist stronghold (but even they don't trust him as he has been arrested by them along with his other son). Those born in UK should be removed if they are of foreign parentage. If they are not they must be screened, tagged and subject to tight curfews and restrictions on travel outside their home. At the same time, all mosques must be subject to review - any that have even a hint of extremist views needs to be told that they must remove the extremists or be closed. This isn't an attack on Islam because the perversion of extremism isn't found in the normal interpretation of the Koran nor the teachings of their prophet. This sounds draconian and "not the British way" - well, so be it, It isn't the British way to allow our children to be murdered because of a perverted ideology and idly standby whilst the perpetrators look for more opportunities to harm the country and its people. This situation has been developing for some time; now is the time to stamp down very hard and remove the rot. this can be followed by more efforts to integrate all children into a non-religious education system where rights go along side-by-side with responsibilities and loyalty.
  3. 4 points
    Its a sad indictment of society that NHS staff and paramedics can't be expected to get through their shifts without being assaulted.
  4. 4 points
    I am not a Police officer but have enough experience of policing and as a junior, middle & senior manager in a number of structured organisations, to know that Direct entry to Police above the level of Constable would be very dangerous. There are very few non-Police managers who will have the breadth of experience that will enable them to take both a strategic and tactical view of policing situations and, at the same time, have the tacit knowledge gained from personal experience, that is essential when making decisions within split-seconds and under pressure. I have a pretty open mind (RM please note ) when it comes to developing people and moving them up in organisations depending on their skills and capabilities. However, a Policing environment is different - the "stakeholders" (sorry about that word) in a policing situation are not just Police Officers but the vast array of the public as individuals or organisations with varying levels of interest. To be able to deal with such interests, a Police Supervisor needs experience in dealing with people often in traumatic / pressured situations. That doesn't often happen in office environments nor even in the retail trade. What might be appropriate is for some senior level Police jobs that do not require warranted powers to be done by non-Police officers but the essence of the British Police Officer on-the-streets is that he/she is experienced, can exercise split-second judgement, can be compassionate and well-versed in the rights and wrongs of the Law and what actions they must take or can exercise with discretion. There might be small numbers of former Armed Forces SNCOs and officers who might be able to bring the necessary tactical / strategic skills & experience but run-of-the-mill civilian managers - sorry, not on!
  5. 4 points
    Mark, I'm sure things vary from force to force but personally I am knackered. Every shift I am playing catch up. Last set of lates I had to stay on until 5am on one of them and 3 on the others just to catch up with my admin(and I don't get overtime). Every current missing person is supposed to be reviewed and taskings added. I am usually covering absences so have a responsibility covering a square mileage you wouldn't believe and I daren't write because the public will read it. Every new missing person has to be risk assessed and if it's high I co-ordinate as SIO. On nights I cover PACE as well, I do all the authorisations for vehicle seizures, over time and SIG markers. I am providing advice to often upward of 6 sergeants. Anything that requires safeguarding I review and ratify in writing what we have and haven't done and in between I deal with my complaints workload. I also have assessments for temporary Sergeants under my supervision to do for their promotion diplomas. While juggling all that I attend anything that sounds griefy, violent, complicated or messy. I review the deaths and decide if it's sus or not and carry the can for anything that goes wrong. I make sure I am seen about in all the nicks so people can doorstep me and am constantly putting out "fires". I am just touching on the tip of the iceberg of what I do and what my responsibilities are. -Every shift I am in 30 minutes to an hour early and off frequently long after all the PC's and my sergeants have gone home. On RD's I am checking emails appealing annual leave refusals and negotiating attachments for courses- If I didn't my inbox would fill up too fast I also stand in the CI/Supts office and pin my ears back and take the heat when a PC or skipper makes a mistake-Where I can I absorb that heat and if they don't need to know my teams don't hear about it. One of the new Inspectors on my rotation regularly went to the gents to throw up because his anxiety levels got so high with the responsibility he was carrying.... When I was a PC I had no idea what the Inspector did and very cushy it looked too. Don't get me wrong I enjoy my role but I/we work hard too. If my team spoke about me the way you've talked about your Insp I would be mortified.... HMS
  6. 4 points
    And I put minds at rest, Chief Cheetah has been a long standing member of the forum communities across the board. Generally participation before the change in forum ownership before this one! It is nice to see that he is part of the new Admin team!
  7. 3 points
    Where have all the old contributors gone to. When the site changed in January I found great difficulty in accessing the forum. I had registered originally with an email address I no longer used because it had been hacked. I could not change my password or anything. It was fortunate that I was able to contact the administrator and Moderators and they managed to sort out my new (Well old secure) email address and for me to set a new password. But where on earth are Quokka, Westie, Itoldyouonce, Cheese, Reasonable Man, GManc,Spider, etc,etc. I have joined one of the sister sites but it appears to be mainly Specials and PCSO's who know everything about everything, whilst, at the same time, knowing nothing. Experience is scorned as a dirty word. There do have to be different opinions, otherwise you would have a sterile environment with every poster saying "Yes I agree" agree, agree. I do hope that the old posters on here have not disappeared for good. Come back we need you. This edit was made after someone clicked "Like" The sister also seems to be very much Met orientated and they seem to work off different rules and even laws than the rest not us Plebs. And before someone replies, I am not anti Met, but there is life north of Watford Gap.
  8. 3 points
    Likewise O.C. As far as I am concerned there should be a zero tolerance regarding any form of violence in our hospitals. Like you I visited and encouraged visits by my officers. Nothing like a cuppa and personally knowing the staff.
  9. 3 points
    I always made a point of visiting A&E Departments when on patrol and as a sgt & inspector I frequently instructed my PCs to do likewise. Quite often, if trouble occurred there were already police officers in the A&E Departments already dealing with RTCs, assaults etc. that had occurred outwith the hospital and they would always intervene if necessary to deal with any disturbances occurring within A&E. Eventually, my old force paid officers overtime to police A&E Departments on Friday and Saturday nights but in the present financial situation I understand this no longer happens. I always thought it was a disgrace that people (usually patients) would act in an abusive manner towards medical staff but when alcohol enters the equation (and it usually does on these occasions) then all logical thought evaporates.
  10. 3 points
    I am not biased against direct entry because I have no right to be. However, as a fairly experienced senior manager across a number of public service-type organisations and 27 years as a Special, I have a view that the complexities and challenges of Policing are such that it would be dangerous to put relatively inexperienced individuals into command positions in potentially difficult situations. I know I need not tell you that the consequences of mistakes in such situations are significant - not just for the individual making the mistake but also others involved in the situation. I do not think that the marginal benefit that some might see from direct entry is worth the trauma and cost that would ensue from an inexperienced direct-entry Inspector making a cock-up simply because they did not have the depth of experience they would have gained if they had joined as a PC and progressed to Inspector through time as a PS.
  11. 3 points
    Just what I wanted to hear. My concerns have been answered, I was going to offer my help to ease the IT issues previously but looks like you have got it covered. Cheers Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
  12. 3 points
    The hearing was held in public and some disturbing facts emerged. The Chief Constable was at the event, as a guest, for some event promoting women. he was concerned about the drunken state of his ACC and asked a then female Chief Inspector to see her to her hotel as he was concerned. The ACC then went into a drunken tirade accusing the other of having had breast surgery, and the rest followed on. They were going to deal with it as an internal advice job but then after discussions decided to start discipline proceedings. I think that the whole circumstances showed that the ACC was unfit for her role and I am astounded that the discipline panel recommended that she should not lose her job. It was also a surprise that one of the panel members was Sir Tom Winsor, how and why I do not know. The woman Chief Inspector later transferred to Cumbria on promotion to Superintendent. I wonder if this was an arrangement to pacify her and smooth things over. As the Chief was a guest at the event his overnight accommodation and everything else was a "freebie". I would like to know who paid for this Women's event and question the decision of the Chief Constable to accept a "Freebie". I am afraid that anything else, other than dismissal, would be unacceptable.
  13. 3 points
    I think the problem is in the large print:- He tried to cover it up!!!! Blatant dishonesty, not what we or the service really want! If he'd put his hands up and admitted the mistake, the worst he could have faced was a bill for correcting the error.
  14. 3 points
    You're right, I apologise for being undemocratic about the whole thing. Rule britannia, vive le farage.
  15. 3 points
    I feel that most of those who leave don't 'hate' the EU. A lot of the problems come from the total inflexability of the administration and all their rules. The unfair way that some members were admitted into the fold when they did not meet the financial requirements regarding nation debt (Greece, Bulgaria and Romania come immediately to mind). Irrespective what is stated about the President, he/she is supposed to be neutral but they don't give the impression that they are. A periodic election wouldn't work either so I don't know what the answer is. Then there is the problem often mentioned and that is the admission of anyone entitled to travel between countries and that is as far as Britain is concerned, we are actually quite full! We have the 3rd or 4th largest population but are one of the smallest land masses. One solution to sort out the workers from the skivers would be to pay benefits at the same level as their parent countries, then we could see how many with a poor expectation of a real meaningfull full time and permanent jobs actually stay. (I didn't say highly qualified, I meant only those who will not be a burdon)
  16. 2 points
    When I joined, over 50 years ago, the height limit for most police forces in the UK was around 5'10'' with 2 or 3 requiring candidates to be 6'0''. It was necessary in those days for police officers to be large persons as we lacked the excellent equipment which today's officers are issued with to defend themselves or summon assistance quickly and frequently had to depend on our physical prowess to carry out certain aspects of policing. However, things have moved on and given the kit which today's officers are issued, physical prowess and appearance are not as necessary as they were at one time. I see many officers on the streets today who are les than your 5'8''. Good luck.'
  17. 2 points
    Isn't it possible to just stop paying into the pension? Or must you remain in the pension scheme? Each to their own, but cops remaining at work when they could be getting their pension has always baffled me. They are effectively working for next to nothing, seeing as they could be receiving a nice pension for not working. Ok, its a reduced income but then you have to consider you aren't paying into your pension anymore, which boosts it back up to something similar to your current wage. The only way I would keep working for the police after qualifying for retirement is by retiring and then returning to work as civilian staff, that way you get your pension and your salary.
  18. 2 points
    It is a rare opportunity indeed these days. MY first was not a great hit but it started me smoking again, after being stopped for 12 months. Visually I had no problem, as I was told, "Do not think of it as a body, but a piece of meat in a butchers shop. It is a corpse, no feelings but a dead body". I was ok with that as I got the visual impact correct in my mind. However the smell was something that I got completely wrong although, at subsequent P.M.'s it did not affect me because I then knew what to expect. If you want a tip to help with that, get a small jar of "Vick" and smear a very small amount on your nostrils it masks the smell, and that advice was given to me by a pathologist. If you watch and listen you should find it extremely interesting, if he is giving a commentary on what he is doing; showing the sights of a Cardio infarction (Heart attack), or of Cranial haemorrhage (Stroke). If he corpse is of a smoker he/she will show you the condition of the lungs. Non Smoker pink and healthy whereas a smoker will look black and resemble more of a large piece of Coke from a fire. Also prepare yourself for when they use a saw to open the skull, it can be like a dentist drill going through you. There will be many who will leave the room, or even pass out, it is nothing unusual. Hope this does not put you off too much but, hopefully it may prepare you better. Edit, Forgot to mention, the body was once a person so treat the whole process with respect.
  19. 2 points
    Well, according to what I have seen on the news reports, austerity, and from that I assume the drastic cuts in all quarters, is now going to come to an end. We will see if that does indeed to turn out to be the case (let's hope so).
  20. 2 points
    Our cuts came under Labour, before May, but, to be fair, they have continued under her since. I don't know the figures but the NPA has increased. Labour have never been the friend of the Police Service, and the Conservatives always were pre Winsor. Since then I have noticed that they both have no concern for the Police except trying to gain Political control by PCC's
  21. 2 points
    Of course, it goes without saying, that my condolences are to the families who lost loved ones in the Manchester Arena attack, RIP all those who lost their lives, and I wish a very speedy recovery to all those injured too. Having said all that, I have just seen Sky news, and it was announced that one of those who was killed was a serving police officer. As a retired police officer now, I would also like to say the same to that officer and their family too. On the report that I saw, it did not say whether it was a male or female officer. It matters not. They were killed carrying out their duty, and whether past or present, it could have been any one of us. As I said, RIP.
  22. 2 points
    Totally agree, and if things continue to deteriorate I would hope that HMG give some consideration to internment where appropriate.
  23. 2 points
    It depresses me to say so but, the Government must withdraw the EHRA so that they can deport anyone partaking in terrorism, in any way.
  24. 2 points
    The murdered officer has been named as DC Elaine McIver, a Cheshire officer. Her husband has been critically injured and their two children also injured - although it seems not critically. There are really no words that can adequately express the sorrow and despair that will be felt by so many at this loss and the family's situation. May Elaine's soul Rest In Peace and let us hope that her husband and children recover. My sympathy to all their family, their friends and Elaine's colleagues.
  25. 2 points
    VS and VR, what on earth is happening to the police forces up and down the land. I can understand that those still serving see it as a route to 'kerching' but what ever happened to what I always experienced as a good job/vocation.
  26. 2 points
    It must be good news week. This morning I awoke to, the great news that Ian Brady is dead. My father worked on the original enquiries and was amazed at some of the rubbish written about Brady and Hindley. As far as he was concerned they were the most evil people he ever met. Neither showed any remorse for their actions. May they both now rot in Hell.
  27. 2 points
    I saw the story via Bullshire and UK Cop Humour and saw that every comment on the Sun website was supportive of the police so I think that the intention to write an anti police story has backfired.
  28. 2 points
    "See you tonight Love". "Ok take care" The conversation that every officer has every day on leaving for work, never knowing if he will return. R.I.P. Keith
  29. 2 points
    Totally agree with regard to references. Few people provide the name of someone as a referee without having first consulted them and ascertained that they will provide comments of a favourable nature. I have only heard of one instance of a referee failing to support the candidate. In my old force we always did unannounced home visits on candidates but I am informed this is no longer the case. There is little doubt in my mind that this aspect of enquiring into the background of candidates had deteriorated.
  30. 2 points
  31. 2 points
    Zulu' To be frank, I think references are worthless unless they are properly examined - in the case of candidates for entry to any Police position (warranted or not), all referees should be visited and examined on their assessment of the individual (I wouldn't do this until the final stage when someone is seriously being considered for appointment). This used to happen - I know for certain that when I joined the Met Specials my three referees were personally interviewed by the then Manchester City Police. One was my former school headmaster who said I was unlikely to stick at it as my attention was quickly diverted - I saw this and the other referees' comments just after I received the first bar to my LS&GC medal (our Regular Liaison Inspector had a sense of the ironic in showing me the headmaster's comments). To get back to the references issue - no-one gives a person as a referee unless they think they will give a good reference. I have done maybe 20+ referee visits and only once did someone suggest that the subject individual might be unsuitable. A lot of background checking these days is done on-line - social-media is a potential mine of information about attitudes, opinions, acquaintances etc but you cannot beat a face-to-face interview with someone who knows the candidate! One way or another, these individuals were either very lucky or "love" made them irrational .............. I'm a cynic - so I think the seeds of dishonesty and poor character were there all the time - they just weren't identified for whatever reason!
  32. 2 points
    We all know how they got through the selection process. Maturity, capability and a track record of ethical behaviour are no longer requirements. I don't say this with any cynicism- these qualities have been deprioritised. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  33. 2 points
    From the information that is now coming to light - no assessment made of his mental health, suppressed evidence of the environment and the situation in his particular duty location, barring a senior RM officer who was critical of the local command and supervision, and a trial by his "peers" who were not actually anything like his peers - three of the panel being HQ RN officers not operational RM officers - suggests to me that justice could not have been at the forefront of the mind of the Military Prosecuting Authority. Perhaps they do training attachments with the CPS. It is difficult to defend someone who is intent on murder but all the circumstances suggest that any other service person might have done the same in those circumstances when they were under extreme pressure and had been badly let-down by their superiors - having seen pictures of the checkpoint that C/Sgt Blackman commanded, it was almost undefendable - low walls, no cover except sweltering hot metal containers, no toilet facilities and no defences again mortars, RPGs, not grenades / IEDs. I am with Frederick Forsyth when he suggests that someone needs to investigate not just the court process but also the chain-of-command. I was amused to see the PM say that the MoD have been supporting the Blackmans throughout the trial and appeal - what an absolute load of b#ll#cks. I rarely use this sort of profanity but this case is definitely an exception where only such a word can describe what was said! :-(
  34. 2 points
    It is nothing less than a huge farce and what does it say about the hierarchy of the GMP. They look after their own why they will happily crucify junior officers for, compared to ACC Sutcliffe's offence, are minor issues.
  35. 2 points
    The truth of the matter is that Policescotland is totally and utterly broke. Since its creation various methods have been used in an attempt to make economies, including the controversial reduction of police support staff which means that many officers who should be on operational duties now have to undertake those functions latterly perfromed by the support staff who are no longer there. It has been obvious for some time that the only way to successfully achieve the cash savings required is to reduce the numbers of sworn officers abd that it what is being done. I know of nobody who truly believes anything other than that. The statements issuing from the current Chief Constable and others in authority concerned with Police Scotland amount to nothing more than smoke and mirrors in attempt to placate the public. Why can't they just say `Look, we are broke. We will have to reduce the saize of our establishment if we are to get anywhere near the savings necessary and the public weill just have to accept the reduced service they will receive.''
  36. 2 points
    I don't think that anyone can answer that. I am thankful that the many harrowing things I experienced have had no great effect on me - or rather I don't believe they had. I don't know why that is though. You I had colleagues not so fortunate who went wibble sometimes many years later. Not trying to worry you, just saying some are fortunate while others are not. You should have some sort of assistance through your occupational health department and if you are thinking about this in a day or two I strongly recommend making contact with them. The worst thing you can do is take the macho 'I'm a cop, it's what I'm paid to deal with.' attitude. A former colleague of mine, ex Royal Marine, loud, brash, dealt with anything and laughed it off type went missing about six months after he retired. Turned out he wasn't as capable of dealing with all that stuff as everyone thought. Happy ending but he came back to some psychological treatment to see him through that maybe he should have had years before. Good luck.
  37. 2 points
    I agree, it is pour Intel and briefing at fault. However it is Q9 who us going to have to live with the fact that he took a life. What will that fact have on him, and his family.
  38. 2 points
    I do not like Richard Littlejohn but on this topic he is spot on. Why should anyone weep for a known drug dealer, who has with him an automatic hand gun. He was the author of his own misfortune. My sympathy goes to the firearms officer who people will try to hang out to dry. It would be an excellent use of Federation Funds to fund any defence of the officer I would also hope that the Chief Officer will have the balls to stand up and be counted in supporting his officers.
  39. 2 points
    Faceache is a leaky sieve when it comes to security. I am a member because I need the networking and it's been a good way to keep up with my family. But nothing is safe there. That said, nothing is safe here either. Nothing. Faceache has privacy settings so only friends can see most of my posts, However, those friends could lift stuff off my page, they could also put stuff on my page, though I have set that such that it's visible to "only me". That doesn't stop the owners of Faceache looking at it if they so desired, though. Neither does it stop certain agencies from snooping. The FB adverts I see are dictated by my tastes and my recent amazon browsing history. There ain't no such thing as a free lunch. If I join a "public" FB group, my posts are visible to whomever chooses to look at the group and to all my friends, who get the posts on their feeds ad nauseaum. So, basically, you may think the settings are private, that you're posting something only the chosen few will see, but it all depends on how much you trust that chosen few. Basically don't post anything you wouldn't mind being pasted to the No 21a bus.
  40. 2 points
    There was an article and a letter from a serving Sergeant in tonight's Manchester evening News giving the opinion of the rank and file, slating the decision of the panel. It pointed out that if this have been a junior officer he/she would have been gone a long time ago. You know, it still happens that an officer is given Hobson's choice, resign now or face a Disciplinary hearing. He writes that she was spoked to have had great support regarding her ability, and she stated how much pressure she was under. He questioned who were these people supporting her with character references as he and his colleagues knew of no one who held that I opinion. Senior Officers throughout the Force were also enraged by the one's decision. And, what pressure; pressure was at 3am in the morning faced with a dangerous situation and knowing that there was little, if any support. Pressure was an AFO with a weapon in his hand with a fraction of a second, do I shoot or do I not. Will the Senior Management hang me out to dry. A shift supervisor trying to stretch his resources so thinly because, Senior management will not listen or oblivious to the situation. He does not speak out of line, as many times I had heated discussions with officers more senior to me about these shortages. Of asking them to set down a minimum staffing level, a question that they would never answer, if they ever even considered it. Senior management relies very much on respect, and ACC Sutcliffe can now never receive that. Perhaps if she really looked deeplyinto her bbehaviour she would have done the decent thing and resigned.
  41. 2 points
    Do not be misled by the Chinese "anger" at Trump taking a call from the President of Taiwan. There is significant business going on between Taiwan and the Mainland. It suits PRC to have Taiwan as it is otherwise it would already have invaded and secured the island. The irony of the divide is that both sides fought the Japanese and it was a tussle for power between Chiang-Kai-Shek and Mao Tse Tung rather than outright politics (the were both followers of Sun Yat Sen - the father of Chinese independence from the dynastic Emperors). there will be lot of hot-air but it will not amount to much. On the other hand, the British Government deploying the Royal Navy to patrol the South China Sea (when it should be in Home Water defending the country's borders) has really p#ssed-off the PRC - I suspect because they thought they had good working relations in the anti-piracy patrols in the Indian Ocean. All-in-all, it is often difficult to fathom the actions of politicians - in fact, I think it may be the case that they don't know what they are doing but feel the need to do something - a bit like a novice chess-player!
  42. 2 points
    Or maybe he just decided... I will talk to whoever the **** I want and I'm not going to be bullied....Maybe.
  43. 2 points
    I am well-aware of the academic theory but, like all theories, whilst it may have its champions and adherents, there are others - perhaps like me - who say that there can be exceptions to all theories. the advantage that the academics have is that they invariabley have a depth of research (I don't say "knowledge" because sometimes they are in possession of few hard facts that we might expect). I am fortunate to have worked closely with a lot of academics - some are good, some are bad and some, frankly, very indifferent. The one thing they have in common is that they will invariably support each other and, unless there's the chance of a major accolade, will rarely challenge each other (although challenging is more likely to happen in the physical sciences). I take your point about age and susceptibility to unconscious bias (and new-borns' lack of it but, if you accept the theory of "original sin", you could not be quite so certain about that) But I reiterate my view that my bias are all conscious - and I stick by it. As you don't know me, you only have theory to support your view. Maybe we should leave it there?
  44. 2 points
    You could apply to any opinion and viewpoint held by anyone and it applies euqlly to those who favour unfettered immigration. Like OAH, any bias I hold is certainly of the concious variety and if I also have an unconcious bias it is really subordinate to the conscious one and is therefore of such a similar nature to the extent that it doesn't really matter.
  45. 2 points
    My bias in terms of immigration is very conscious. I believe strongly in not allowing in any European unless they can add value to the country and will not become a charge of the state; entry only if they have a job in advance that cannot be filled by a British worker. It would mean of course that we would have to force the idle and feckless British unemployed to forgo social security and work. It would mean some compulsion and I believe that it reasonable in the context of the benefits of full-employment to the wider society. I also would not allow in any non-European immigrants who fall into the category of economic migrant nor any young, single men from any country outside The Commonwealth. I would permit a maximum of 10,000 under 16 years children in each year if they either had family in UK or could be adopted - not fostered - by UK families. I would also allow British citizens to bring their foreign spouses to UK - the spouses would have immediate right to work; any children would likely be British by descent from their father or mother; so their status is not in question. I do not have any unconscious bias - mine is all very explicit and based solely upon what is best for Britain. My bias is not discriminatory on grounds of ethnicity nor religion. I would always want to ensure that any immigrants who committed criminal offences would b deported at the end of their sentence and not permitted to remain on spurious human rights grounds relating to their "rights to a settled life".- their conduct having disturbed any prospect of being "settled".
  46. 2 points
    To be honest the story does not say why the van was parked in that position. There could have been a perfectly legitimate reason, likewise there could have equally have been contempt, idleness or whatever other reason. The whole story smacks of a poor news day, as someone else has stated.
  47. 2 points
    Cheese, the vote on the EEC was one of the first that I had, and I remember the campaigns quite clearly. The vote was for the European Economic ic Community, the clue was in the name. The EEC was high jacked by a European Political elite who wanted more power at Brussels and with various treaties it Morphed into the ogre of the EU. The democratic EU presided over by the unelected Commission trampling individual countries. No mention of a common currency, which fortunately we did not join. Although those who are supporting the Remainers would have had us join. As HMS has said, because we vote out, it does not make some reviled racist, as some would have you believe. Race, as far as I was concerned had nothing to do with my vote. As for immigration, I have no problem with Sikhs, Hindus, there religion is based largely around honour and trust. Now I cannot say the same about Muslims. But, that is not about race, it is about religion, for we are still regarded as 'the infidel' and there is no dishonour in cheating or disrespecting the infidel. Perhaps if you visited places like India you would realise the perspective of that problem. I have no problem with any immigrant who us going to contribute to our society. Look at the Eastern European crime gangs who thrive here and you realise the dangers of EU free borders. Across the world you can look at other societies who have preyed on the Google will of Britain. Look at some of the crime gangs and societies, The Yardies, The Triads, and others who have prospered thanks to our generous good will. Even within their own communities in this country, these gangs and societies are feared and equally despised. Speaking the truth and pointing out these issues is not racist, it is honest free speech.
  48. 2 points
    They are still just anecdotes, formed by one person's perception of a problem. Far from being balanced evidence. Your comment about the 11th hour, 11th day etc is spot on. Let's not forget the primary reason why the EU was formed, to stop things like WW1and WW2 happening again between European neighbours. Our ancestors sacrificed a great deal, it would be a shame if we left the EU and thus undid all the work that they did.
  49. 2 points
    Soapyw - you need to adjust, sorry I mean shush, in relation to making any anti-Brexit comments. Get on board. Help make it work. What you should you do is just accept that you (we) lost the vote and that 17.5 million people said we should leave the EU. So anything that was said before the vote should just be ignored because, well, it's irrelevant now. They weren't promises, they were ideas. Probably. Let's put it this way, nobody can be charged to court for lying to the electorate, or anything, so we should all just shush. Shush. Pointing out problems with whateverthehell is going on, is anti-democratic, apparently. You're just showing yourself up as being a poor loser and (possibly) a dreamer. You are not a realist. Wanting UK law to actually mean something in Parliament is also, ridiculous. You silly sausage. Also. Stop mentioning £350 million. It wasn't a given, despite being stuck on a double-decker bus. Stuff put on double-decker buses is just colouring. They have to be some colour, so what happened there was a complete accident of colour. Or some words to make some people vote a certain way. Or an advert - although, had it been an advert, it wouldn't have been able to be an actual lie. I bet people thinking that amount of money was actually going to be spent on the NHS, feel right mugs now everybody has disowned that number and said it wasn't a promise. So. In essence, you should just go with "everything is awesome" (like in the Lego movie). And just like Lego, you can pretend anything is what you want to be, and then break it apart when it doesn't suit you any more. It's hilarious to the point of farce. According to the front page of Private Eye this week, Vote Leave had a bus that had "We send the EU £50 million a day let's fund our NHS instead". I'm sure there should have been some punctuation, in the form of a comma, in there, but nevermind. "We send the EU £50 million a day"- I'm going to guess by BACS transfer, or some other electronic means. "Let's fund our NHS instead". Let us fund our NHS instead. Seems simple enough. But, Soapyw, let's forget it. Like it never happened. What that was, my friend, was snakeoil. It wasn't a promise, or an advert. It was just some words. We should all just shush. OR at the very least, get some mileage out of the amusing machinations of whateverthehell is going on right now. :D :D :D
  50. 2 points
    Given the parlous state of many EU countries I consider remaining within the failing, corrupt and inept EU would also be a gamble and my perception of the issue was that we would be better out of the EU. It appears a significant chunk of the electorate thought likewise. I have no doubt, once the dust has settled and we leave the EU, that there will be those who complain they did not get exactly what they voted for. It is relatively rare in life that we get everything that politicians, employers, relatives etc. promise us. To think otherwise would be naive. We didn't get everything we wanted at the end of WW11 and I have never known a government to be elected in this (and probably any other country) who delivered on everything they promised the electorate while campaigning for office. You can't please all of the people all of the time.