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  1. 4 likes
    I am not a Police officer but have enough experience of policing and as a junior, middle & senior manager in a number of structured organisations, to know that Direct entry to Police above the level of Constable would be very dangerous. There are very few non-Police managers who will have the breadth of experience that will enable them to take both a strategic and tactical view of policing situations and, at the same time, have the tacit knowledge gained from personal experience, that is essential when making decisions within split-seconds and under pressure. I have a pretty open mind (RM please note ) when it comes to developing people and moving them up in organisations depending on their skills and capabilities. However, a Policing environment is different - the "stakeholders" (sorry about that word) in a policing situation are not just Police Officers but the vast array of the public as individuals or organisations with varying levels of interest. To be able to deal with such interests, a Police Supervisor needs experience in dealing with people often in traumatic / pressured situations. That doesn't often happen in office environments nor even in the retail trade. What might be appropriate is for some senior level Police jobs that do not require warranted powers to be done by non-Police officers but the essence of the British Police Officer on-the-streets is that he/she is experienced, can exercise split-second judgement, can be compassionate and well-versed in the rights and wrongs of the Law and what actions they must take or can exercise with discretion. There might be small numbers of former Armed Forces SNCOs and officers who might be able to bring the necessary tactical / strategic skills & experience but run-of-the-mill civilian managers - sorry, not on!
  2. 4 likes
    Mark, I'm sure things vary from force to force but personally I am knackered. Every shift I am playing catch up. Last set of lates I had to stay on until 5am on one of them and 3 on the others just to catch up with my admin(and I don't get overtime). Every current missing person is supposed to be reviewed and taskings added. I am usually covering absences so have a responsibility covering a square mileage you wouldn't believe and I daren't write because the public will read it. Every new missing person has to be risk assessed and if it's high I co-ordinate as SIO. On nights I cover PACE as well, I do all the authorisations for vehicle seizures, over time and SIG markers. I am providing advice to often upward of 6 sergeants. Anything that requires safeguarding I review and ratify in writing what we have and haven't done and in between I deal with my complaints workload. I also have assessments for temporary Sergeants under my supervision to do for their promotion diplomas. While juggling all that I attend anything that sounds griefy, violent, complicated or messy. I review the deaths and decide if it's sus or not and carry the can for anything that goes wrong. I make sure I am seen about in all the nicks so people can doorstep me and am constantly putting out "fires". I am just touching on the tip of the iceberg of what I do and what my responsibilities are. -Every shift I am in 30 minutes to an hour early and off frequently long after all the PC's and my sergeants have gone home. On RD's I am checking emails appealing annual leave refusals and negotiating attachments for courses- If I didn't my inbox would fill up too fast I also stand in the CI/Supts office and pin my ears back and take the heat when a PC or skipper makes a mistake-Where I can I absorb that heat and if they don't need to know my teams don't hear about it. One of the new Inspectors on my rotation regularly went to the gents to throw up because his anxiety levels got so high with the responsibility he was carrying.... When I was a PC I had no idea what the Inspector did and very cushy it looked too. Don't get me wrong I enjoy my role but I/we work hard too. If my team spoke about me the way you've talked about your Insp I would be mortified.... HMS
  3. 3 likes
    Where have all the old contributors gone to. When the site changed in January I found great difficulty in accessing the forum. I had registered originally with an email address I no longer used because it had been hacked. I could not change my password or anything. It was fortunate that I was able to contact the administrator and Moderators and they managed to sort out my new (Well old secure) email address and for me to set a new password. But where on earth are Quokka, Westie, Itoldyouonce, Cheese, Reasonable Man, GManc,Spider, etc,etc. I have joined one of the sister sites but it appears to be mainly Specials and PCSO's who know everything about everything, whilst, at the same time, knowing nothing. Experience is scorned as a dirty word. There do have to be different opinions, otherwise you would have a sterile environment with every poster saying "Yes I agree" agree, agree. I do hope that the old posters on here have not disappeared for good. Come back we need you. This edit was made after someone clicked "Like" The sister also seems to be very much Met orientated and they seem to work off different rules and even laws than the rest not us Plebs. And before someone replies, I am not anti Met, but there is life north of Watford Gap.
  4. 3 likes
    I am not biased against direct entry because I have no right to be. However, as a fairly experienced senior manager across a number of public service-type organisations and 27 years as a Special, I have a view that the complexities and challenges of Policing are such that it would be dangerous to put relatively inexperienced individuals into command positions in potentially difficult situations. I know I need not tell you that the consequences of mistakes in such situations are significant - not just for the individual making the mistake but also others involved in the situation. I do not think that the marginal benefit that some might see from direct entry is worth the trauma and cost that would ensue from an inexperienced direct-entry Inspector making a cock-up simply because they did not have the depth of experience they would have gained if they had joined as a PC and progressed to Inspector through time as a PS.
  5. 2 likes
    Absolutely the same where I am. Response officers taking no ownership of incidents, standard of evidential packages regularly poor as a result, and CID constantly trying to pick up the pieces. Whilst response may occasionally work overtime on scene preservation, bed watches and the like, CID officers rarely get off on time, regularly working extended hours. Double shifts and beyond are not unusual. Crime queues running into the 20's and 30's are common, with DS's having to manage teams which, between them, can be carrying 160 crimes plus. A nightmare for the officers, a waking nightmare for DS's who I know are having sleepless nights, and no sort of service for victims. The wheel has well and truly come off down our way.
  6. 2 likes
    If you look at it from a military angle, who runs the Regiment the C.O. or the RSM. The ones who come through University usually does 6 months at Sandhurst and come out as a rather incompetent Rupert, whereas the one without that educational background does 2 years and comes out, mainly as a competent junior officer. Education is not everything, knowledge does not necessarily bring experience.
  7. 2 likes
    I do travel a bit. It's an interesting question as to how well travelled - I counted up and it's over 30 different countries as well, whether that counts as well travelled I have no idea. Probably not. However I have experienced other police forces which range from the truly awful to superb. The point I was making was less about the institution of policing but more about the effectiveness of them, hence the crime rates aspect. I realise that police are not solely responsible for that - there are many other factors, but it's an indication. I was also comparing with similarly Western developed countries - European ones in the main. The main thrust was to counter the argument that we are not the best by any means. Incidentally where we do fall down is in smartness. We must be getting on for one of the scruffiest police organisations in the world! Dont misunderstand me, I'm not denigrating the Police in any way, it's a fantastic job. However having done a few years I do recognise its faults and that it's not perfect. We have been trading on the legacy of tradition and reputation 'the good old British bobby' for far too long and it's not helping us any more. Someone described the police about 10 years ago as 'slowly coming to terms with the twentieth century' which I thought was quite apt. We need to adapt to modern times and with 19th century thinking that's never going to happen. The evidence is clearly there to suggest that things are not perfect so changes need to be made. Yes Direct Entry might not work. But conversely it might and until we try it, how will we know?
  8. 2 likes
    I would suggest the need for change in a functioning system is the thing that needs to be evidenced, not the need not to. Evolution has a lot of dead ends and extinctions and I would rather we didn't utilise trial and error when lives are at stake. So I disagree- where is the evidence? I am not the one saying things are so bad we must transplant a major organ in the Policing physiology....
  9. 2 likes
    Let us hope that the officer is alright. The report does not make any comment of his injuries or condition. Every time we go out on to the street we never know if we will come back. Hope the officer has a full and speedy recovery.
  10. 2 likes
    I am also here still, but just jump in, have a look around and jump out again, often without logging on. I expect a few others do the same. As I am "getting on" now, and have caring duties for my 92 year old mother, I get less time for perusing the ether, but will still do so, when i have time.
  11. 2 likes
    You are there to make the decisions and you live or die by them. Many times the troops do not know the flack that are shielding them from. Strange that my children now thank me for the guidance through those tender years, up to about 30.
  12. 2 likes
    Amy, I did your survey however I would like you and you supervisor to have the following feedback. Your questions are loaded. For example there is an entire section where you force the subject to give evidence of racial bias both positive and negative. There is no option to express that you find it inappropriate to utilise racial stereotypes only to say what they are. Many of your questions are largely binary in nature but the topics you approach much more complex. Like do you believe all rapists should receive punishments beyond imprisonment like "being whipped in the streets". If you are going to ask questions like that you need to give an option for each case being treated on it's own merits. Much of the survey appears aimed at people who are still in full time education rather than Police Officers. Whoever wrote that has a simplistic view of the world and apparently a neo liberal political view with a dislike of Police Officers. In essence Martin Luther King or the Archangel Gabriel(If he exists) could complete your survey and it would make them appear racist. Can I ask you some questions:- Your survey is it intended to a) Denigrate Police Officers b ) Insult Police Officers c) Get rid of Police Officers or d) Embarrass Police Officers. Do you think Police Officers are :- Somewhat racist b ) Very racist c) Extremely racist d) Unicorns Sorry they are the only answers you get and you have to choose one....... This is poor biased work.
  13. 2 likes
    Well said HMS. The core of your post is - most PCs don't know what an Insp does. Even less the ranks above that. I was talking to a Supt the other day who was struggling with telling his officers to go home on time and not work on to make the job work - for their health and wellness. While he was working 10-12 hours a day five days a week to get the job done. Easy to criticise someone for sitting in an office. In these days of austerity they really are not going to pay someone £50k + for doing nothing. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  14. 2 likes
    Our job is largely based around managing conflict. We mediate, we enforce, we suppress the likelihood of harm. Now within the job there are many officers of both sexes who know how to do that. Truthfully though the vast majority of that percentage are men. Men and women are different. Both the men and women that get promoted into leadership positions who cannot perform those core functions generally do not have my respect. Because they didn't have it when they were front line and I helped carry them. Those individuals if they are honest with themselves realise they aren't suited to Policing. If they aren't honest with themselves they say that it is everyone else who isn't suited to Policing. These are the officers who never get to the big fight but take the view that those that did used excessive force or were unprofessional. When they get promoted(often quickly to escape what they can't deal with) they retain this view and become the ivory tower seat polishers and the callers for the acclaimed BEST police force in the world to be reformed. Direct entry is just another way to get more of these cowards into positions of power without getting found out for what they are on the sharp end. Those misogynists of old you refer to RM.... They had a point and what they said was true and was absolutely in the spirit of equality. Men and women - earn your respect and your gender becomes largely irrelevant. Respect does not just get handed to you however. You can be "a woman" or you can have as much scrambled egg on your cap as you like. Man or woman I'll respect you as a Police officer when you've earned it.
  15. 1 like
    IIRC you've got to have not been policing for several years before you can be a magistrate.
  16. 1 like
    I am an MOP with a bit of (now rapidly ageing) Police perspective. So, here's my view: A warranted officer is a warranted officer - all the same, irrespective of rank, when the sh#t hits the fan, I expect them all to do the same thing - take action! I once patrolled with the then Chief Superintendent George Rushbrook, on a Sunday morning along the Bayswater Road. George Rushbrook retired as a Commander and was rated in a book, "The Signs of Crime", as one of the most practical detectives in the Met. He was also a really nice bloke. During that Sunday patrol, one of the many things he said was " it doesn't matter who you are in The Job, what matters is what you do". I think that about sums up how I see policing - rank really isn't the issue but what an individual actually achieves is what is important. So Response / CID / Specialist Squads are not so important (particularly to the end-user - Joe & Josephine Public); they would like to see more blue suits with shiny buttons and pointed hats on the streets (with body armour but probably without lime-green or similar hued jackets etc). That's really what policing is about - and has been since 1829 when "the first objective to be obtained is the prevention of crime"! For what it's worth, this is just a view from a man who once rode on The Clapham Omnibus
  17. 1 like
    Seriously, promotion. So going to a Dept that was initially set up to assist uniform is now a promotion. Well I never. Who ever uses these words are seriously deluded. Attending a six week CID course should not by any stretch of the imagination be thought as such. In our force we've now got our Collision Investigation Officers attending such courses and achieving the accreditation. Excellent and fair play to them I say, but to then try and tell me they are promoted is way too much. Or is it only considered that if they were plain clothes and sit in the CID office? Or is the two year magic period and then you no longer are a T/DC but DC? I did try CID in my youthful days. More a look see from my perspective as I didn't really know what they did. Now I do, and it's not a job that I would ever want. I can see a need for them, of course I can, but there are numerous specialist depts that require extra training and studying, there is even talk of a National Accreditation for Traffic Officers, yet if you go on them are you considered promoted? However, I can see that there are some folk on here who are sensitive over opinions, so I shall now keep em to myself.
  18. 1 like
    I presume that's directed at Archermav? As a career tec, you're preaching to the converted with me.
  19. 1 like
    Cheese, I fancy a job at your place………..what part of the country are you in? Just reading the above now explains some of the others posts. Our Response teams go out and deal with all jobs. I work with a caseload of between 15 -20 crimes, from S18, fraud, thefts , domestic violence & daily S136, hangings, etc……We don't have any other departments to take work off us other than CID, proactive & reactive, PPU & Adults team for DV. Other than that there is no one. That is why, when we attend at a job that is a CID job we contact them direct and they come out to their job i.e. Burglary , street robbery etc…….we don't have the time to deal with these in detail due to our workload. The days of CID not coming out are over, and they must attend. There workload has certainly shot up and they are busy. The government use to give Response officers a payment at xmas £1200 and all that happened was that CID changed their rota so they could claim it as well. There should be no payment for skills but payment for workload!
  20. 1 like
    If I've read correctly you've answered your own question, there should be explanatory notes provided and you will be committing an offence if you drive the vehicle on the road, whilst the prohibition notice is still in place. Now depending on the restrictions you may be able to drive it to a pre arranged not appointment but I'm not 100% sure on that as I don't know what you've been given. Although the explanatory notes should help you
  21. 1 like
    That's rather muddied the already murky waters.
  22. 1 like
    I would be more reassured if the selection process identified a long standing SC than someone with no Policing background- The SC would have more of an idea of what he didn't know which would prompt the leadership with consultation skills that both CP and OAH refer to. Can someone tell me what they are bringing to the party that I don't know? Perhaps it would be something that I could learn.
  23. 1 like
    The thing is, it's a risky move. I don't believe the situation is so bad that it justifies such a risk. Yes there is always room for improvement but why not get these fresh new perspective people employed on our change teams? Why not have them embedded in shifts and then feed back their ideas which can be debated round a table by whoever is deemed fit to decide on change? Then policy can be written and current management appropriately trained. That way we get a transition, we get our innovation and outside skills but we also keep the best of what we already have. When our embedded advisor comes up with a great idea it will be adopted. When they come up with something that's going to Impede someone will have an opportunity to explain why before it goes live. This whole lets give it a whirl and see if anything breaks just seems reckless to me.
  24. 1 like
    Why not attempted murder, and I agree that the sentence was pathetic and showed no backing at all.
  25. 1 like
    I, rightly or wrongly, tend to try and shut things away, I have one or two close work friends who I can talk to it about, that aren't councillors or anyone from that side of things. But people who I can sit and have a drink and chat about it. No names no specific detail. just an ear and it helps Edit: just to add I tip my hat to anyone that is an FLO. Not a job for me, not at this point in time anyway
  26. 1 like
    Direct entry Inspectors are a victory of gloss over substance. Nothing replaces frontline police experience and even then sometimes it has to be the right frontline experience. My final post was multi agency traditionally a last 5 years of service post.They took two of us on at once ( for some reason) my oppo had 3 years service all at the quietest outpost of the quietest division in the force.Less than 20 arrests mainly warrants and breach of bails.But she was posh with an extremely posh voice, smartly dressed has all the gadgets and was a whizz on the computers.I was a grumpy old man sulking because my last job had been civilianised but with 22 years frontline as shitzzville on shifts.She was fooking useless dangerous even but she was believable after all she was a cop and looked the part. It took about 10 weeks for the multi agency staff to figure her out as baby police out of her depth.With direct entry inspectors it will be 10 minutes.
  27. 1 like
    And now I can't argue for the sake of modesty.... Can we never just behave toward one another? The last time I left this forum was because it always devolved to the personal. Must it always be so? Now this is your queue to tell me I lack a sense of humour or should toughen up. Always the man never the idea when it gets down to the bottom line.... I find myself once again disappointed and thinking I need to go elsewhere for debate and discussion. Oh well c'est la gauche. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  28. 1 like
    The British Police are NOT generally rightly criticised. The vast majority of complaints against Police have dematerialised in the face of body worn video. The progressive liberal view that we are all racist bullies is a lie based on lies. Maybe as a white man I'm not allowed a voice on this but there's enough black cops of both sexes who will back me up. Anywhere else in the world, look at the brutality, the corruption and the failure to deliver justice.... Where is better than us? I'm not buying into this sweeping "just accept it" rubbish. There is a new wave of thought called "Evidence based policing". Essentially what it says is- no more change for changes sake- you want to say something needs to change then fine- SHOW US THE EVIDENCE. Don't just tell us we're s**t and we need to change and some random with 3 years training is going to fix us. Show me facts.
  29. 1 like
    Oh . You are with one of those "pass the job to the department that deals with this stuff" forces and you are a PC... And you think you are the one with all the skills.... Mark... how long have you been a cop? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  30. 1 like
    Very well- I believe due to the placement of direct entry Inspectors into operational command positions that people will die that otherwise wouldn't have. This is because our work focuses more and more on protecting and safeguarding, especially vulnerable people. I can see those that don't understand what it is that I do thinking I am dramatising things, but that is not the case. In the last 48 hours I have directed the enquiries that stopped a genuinely suicidal person from doing so against the clock. The skills I used to do that were acquired over a significant amount of time. With the best will in the world a direct entry won't know what I know. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  31. 1 like
    No. That's just to counter the arguments from suitably qualified sgts. Heavily operational can only mean heavily operational. People will die. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  32. 1 like
    Your probably safe. From what I understand in could take 3 or more years for any changes to happen, should the police challenge be successful. By then you will almost have your 30 yrs service. If your protection was to be removed with only 1 or 2 years of service left, then it will have a very small impact on you.
  33. 1 like
    Hey jmc195! Having recently joined the job, I'll happily help you here! I wouldn't be able to suggest anything on altbergs, I chose Bates but have heard many good things about both! My recommendation would be to try every damned pair on that you can! We were advised on our first day to wear smart clothes, a suit, essentially. I went out and bought several new shirts and wore my best clothes, just to be issued with a big box including all my equipment minus body armour, radio, phone and warrant card. The equipment I was issued is as below; 2x combat/patrol trousers 6x wicking shirts 1x soft shell jacket 1x super comfy raincoat 2x Number One shirts 1x Number One trousers 1x Pair of Kevlar gloves 1x regular belt 1x tactical belt 1x CPR mask 3x utility clips 1x document pouch 1x Waterproof over trousers 1x Waterproof over hat thing 1x Tactical vest 1x High vis 1x radio pouch Hats Upon the end of my training I was issued with: 1x Radio 1x Samsung Smartphone 1x Warrant cards And everything else that you get! Things I would recommend buying: - Good socks, something like 5.11's - Better gloves, something that you can use a phone with, write with, use well - Under clothes like thermal underwear (depends when you go operational really, I use them all the time in the winter) - We got given some freebies like key chains and stuff from PMAS but if you don't get these, I would invest in them, getting keys to your locker, nick, radio locker, etc. Makes it worth keeping them safe and attached to your clothing. - Notepad for quick reference (call signs, etc) - Thermal flask if you drink as much coffee as me! - Vehicle for day one as the amount of stuff you'll be issued is a fair bit! - Document pad for taking notes during training - A good nights sleep, expect to be murdered by powerpoints - A few pinches of salt - A good sense of humour - Plenty of jokes - if your force uses Samsung devices, I'd recommend an external battery supply from somewhere like Anker, but this isn't needed for your training - A pocket full of pens - If I think of anything else, I'll let you know! Hope this helps! Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
  34. 1 like
  35. 1 like
    A very large number of the SMT who have been criticised have gone through the accelerated promotion scheme. Many had degree's to start with and were fast tracked, many obtained degree's whilst serving. They have gone through the text book learning and lack nothing, except perhaps one thing, street experience. I am sure that there is a University out there doing degrees in bullsh1t. I have managed. unfortunately to mentor one or two. One came as an Inspector with very little street experience. A call came in for a RTC and he immediately rose to go out to visit the scene. He wanted to visit every call. I asked him if he thought he was invincible as he would drive himself to an early breakdown. If a job came in and he was needed then, he would be sent for. There would be some obvious jobs that he would go to without being asked, Fatal RTC, Suspicious death (Murder) etc. He eventually got the message but not before the nervous breakdown came. Another Special Course Sergeant (With a degree) who thought that it was in order to take a security guard Robbery victim to where 4 men had been arrested and ask him, "Is that them" The only reason that did not hit the fan was because it was not them. Yet another Special Course, with degree, who fast tracked to CID attending the scene of a murder. I virtually had to throw him out of the murder scene, together with his cigarette for contaminating the scene. All unbelievable, but true. Now if that can happen to me on three occasions, how many times can that be multiplied. Two of those three became Chief Officers. You will have to forgive me if I remain more than sceptical about direct entrants.
  36. 1 like
    I think the problem is this. Some people understand the role (and I would agree on this) to have a requirement for a skillset that is generally acquired over years of Policing. My accumulated knowledge about forensic evidence gathering, investigation, suspect and witness management, risk assessment, public protection, public order, victim focus, traffic infrastructure, conflict resolution, the way the public view the British Police, community tensions and police regulations combined with extensive legal qualifications which have then been extensively practiced and tested. Those skills combined with the people management (which I admit came much later for me) which is assisted by the qudos of having been there and done it yourself. Now all of those things have of course institutionalised me to some degree but I am not sure that is necessarily a bad thing. Someone could get parachuted into my job and bring many of those skills with them-People management/leadership can be learned elsewhere, but there are different types of leadership. Leadership through change can be learned in Tescos. Leadership in the middle of a life threatening situation with injured officers all around less so. Yes I am sure a direct entry could bring a host of fresh ideas and would certainly facilitate change however.... 1) Opposing change because we don't like it is dangerous, but embracing it just because it is change without evidence is equally dangerous. 2)That accepted- Where is the evidence we are in such dire need of change that our own people aren't good enough? 3)Assuming someone can actually provide such evidence for what I consider the world's premier policing service, how much risk is attached to dropping people into these positions? 4)If you are still for direct entry-Is that risk worth the harm that could be caused? Ruperts in the army are well documented in their shortcomings. Many men have died in combat because the officer concerned did not know and could not even imagine what he was ordering. The attack on Port Stanley airport as an example was ill conceived and would never have been ordered by anyone who knew what the Hell they were doing. The Police is no different other than I hope there would be less deaths. I am sure I cannot say there would be none. HMS
  37. 1 like
    Your opinions and you are welcome to them. I must say though the polcomforum is not just for PCSO's or Specials, regular officers who have got ALOT of experience are some of our most regular contributors,just because they don't agree with you does not mean they "know nothing" As for this forum, yes it is quiet, it has been very quiet for a number of years now, however hopefully in due course it will pick up. What might be more constructive than insulting members from a different forum is to give your ideas on how this forum could be improved?
  38. 1 like
    I was being a bit flippant- Probationers that know everything from the word go are much like Unicorns!
  39. 1 like
    I would dread to meet your Inspector, he sounds like product of direct entry. It appears that we disagree with your view of what an Inspector does. Experience is not something you can teach and neither should you decry it. But it seems that we are not going to agree.
  40. 1 like
    Whatever you do you must comply with the relevant legislation. For new vehicles there are quite specific rules about the construction and use of any additional lamp fitted to a vehicle. Daytime running lamps for example, they must be at least 600mm apart and not less than 250 mm nor more than 1,500 mm above the ground. And you can only have Two They shall be switched ON automatically when the key is turned and off when the engine is turned off. They should go off (or dim appropriately) when the main headlamps are turned on. If they are close to the indicators they also have to go off (or dim appropriately) whilst the indicators are functioning. Direction Indicators are even more controlled, for normal cars (Category M1) you can only have Two at the front, additional lamps are not permitted. You can add Side indicators but they must be of the correct class and in the correct position. If you wanted to seek approval the correct method would be through the DVSA Individual vehicle approval process, but it would not be worthwhile as the additional lights would mean it didn't conform. Any modification at all requires that you inform your insurer.
  41. 1 like
    I have to agree, the questions are weak and not balanced at all. On the other hand I had read somewhere that Universities these days didn't contain any radical revolutionaries guided by a spiritual or mystic leader as they did in the 70s. Maybe that was wrong !!
  42. 1 like
    Mark you are coming off quite angry over all this... Do you know what I think makes me a good Inspector? The combined experiences of 10 years as a constable and 11 as a DS . The fact is 9 times out of 10 I really do know better than most those junior in service to me what to do next. Sometimes more than one sergeant needs to work together on separate pieces of a job- I have the oversight and I establish the goal they are working together to reach. The public they see you at a job and hear your decisions... do they know some of them were made by your sgt? Beyond that do you know how many times your sgt speaks to his/her Insp? You are understandably entirely immersed in tactical policing - there is an entire world of strategic policing going on over your head of which you have no insight into. If you have a particularly bad inspector don't judge the rest of us- those bad officers reside at all ranks. Lastly I'd imagine I get paid significantly more than you - if it's so easy get those exams done and come enjoy the free money with the rest of us[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23] Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  43. 1 like
    Everyone in this job thinks the same, that is why we need Direct Entry people to bring different ideas to the party! No one in the police likes someone below them saying how it is and that has been the case for many years I have been in this job. I do what I am told but I do question some of the thinking behind things, so to make it better the next time. An example would be, why is an Insp. going out to deaths and worrying about that. We go straight to a DS & DI and they take control, .....……high risk Misp are reviewed by Insp. but Sgt's deal with the running of it with the FIM, as oversight…….Insp has 3 Sgt under them, Sgt has 12 PCs ………PACE cover, all updates on computer and fill in the blanks ………Authorisation for vehicles, boarding up etc is for confirmation, PC does the writing……....Insp. is the first out the door when his opposite number attends. He makes no bones about that and waves bye bye to us. It is quite funny but we give him banter as well…………all taken in good humour. ………..he is only paid to work 40hrs, just like the rest of us. I thought that was why we have an integrated structure so we don't have to way down the Insp. with everything, where they could make a terrible decision due to stress & pressure………No Insp. should have 6 Sgts under them, no wonder you are under pressure. Don't get me wrong, the Insp. is there to make decisions and that is what they get paid for but they can't take all the workload on, surely. ………….overtime money is still in your pay!……...saying that any OT worked by Insp. is taken as time back. I have had many discussions with many Insp. regarding this and they will not have it. Bought out means no hrs / days back whatsoever……..but that is another subject.
  44. 1 like
    The thing that worries me about this. and hopefully someone can allay my fears.Is the knowledge of the law and procedures.I always found that most Inspectors certainly operational on shifts ( i.e newly promoted) had really good knowledge of the law and procedures especially around custody issues. I know police training went Pete Tong in 89 when it went happy clappy with no exams etc.But before this we had Monday morning exams which we had to pass or face being back classed or worse.But we left having some basic grasp on law , definitions and procedures and we could do a CJA ( MG11) without the process sergeant setting them on fire in disgust. Then the written promotion exams that went out of the window in 1991.Those were really tough and took a lot of studying to pass ( not that it did me any good). So are we going to allow people in without testing law knowledge or doing OSPRE type testing, At Inspector level or Supt level ? Or are they never going to see a shift on 24/7 rota. Thoughts ??
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    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4143976/Paul-free-peace-Wife-mourns-policeman-husband.html Sadly Paul Briggs has passed away peacefully in a Hospice on the Wirral. Paul was a coma victim whose wife won a heart-breaking legal battle for the right to let him die passed away peacefully in a hospice. Paul Briggs, a 43-year-old policeman from the Wirral, had been in a coma since being knocked off his motorbike 18 months ago. R.I.P.Paul.
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    I agree with all your comments. Diversity, racism and sexism have become taboo subjects where the truth is not allowed. One of the other injustices is prison sentences for women. Before a woman gets a Prison sentence it has to be an extremely serious offence.
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    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/black-lives-matter-protesters-gather-in-whitechapel-on-day-of-nationwide-shutdown-a3313356.html I some times wonder and despair at the motivation of some groups. This stems from groups and actions in the USA and nothing to do with us. They are trying to highlight the deaths of Black people at the hands of the Police. It has been timed to coincide with the death of Mark Duggan, a case which has been to an inquest. with jury, who found the death was lawful. In the case of Gunner Lee Rigby has was stabbed to death by two black radicalised men. Armed Police attended with weapons and yet nobody offender was killed. If ever there was a case that could have ended in death of the assailant, perhaps, that was it. I am more concerned that All Lives Matter. It does not matter if you are White, Black, Brown, Yellow, Pink or what ever. Every person has a right to life, but if you move in circles where a gun is a status symbol or something to be carried then you are playing with fire and it will end in death. It is more likely that those responsible will be from your own walk of life. Perhaps they should be more concerned and devote their attentions to the Black on Black deaths by knife and Gun crime in the capital and other parts of the country. I am sick and tired of the Police being ridiculed and held up as the villains. When will someone in authority stand up and publicly say it how it is and stop apologising for lawful actions by ARO's. Perhaps I should take a blood pressure tablet.
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    There was a discussion on R4 yesterday where the rep for the protest had a hard time from the interviewer and representative of a black community/group. It was pointed out that this was jumping on the USA issue bandwagon that doesn't apply over here, to which the protester had no real response other than 'general racism in this country'. The other black guy pointed out that it was five years since a black person had been killed by British police but in that time 19 young black men had been killed - by other young black men in knife attacks so that's where the effort should be in getting people to respect black lives.
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    If it is because they were not up to the job then I am reassured that the process is a tough one that only the best can get through. On the other hand they may have resigned when they saw what a closed minded, incestuous organisation they had joined and the promises of bringing in fresh ideas and strategic thinking from 'outside the box' was so much hot air when all it really wants is more of the same. As OC says, it would be interesting to know the reasons. Sent from me using witchcraft
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    51 shades of Grey Back and forth . . . . back and forth . . . . In and out . . . . in and out . . . . A little to the right . . . . a little to the left . . . . She could feel the sweat on her forehead . . . . Between her breasts . . . . and, trickling down the small of her back . . . . She was getting near to the end . . . . !! He was in ecstasy . . . . with a huge smile on his face as his wife moved . . . . Forwards then backwards . . . . Forward then backward . . . . Again . . . . and, again . . . . !! Her heart was pounding now . . . . Her face was flushed . . . . She moaned . . . . softly at first, then began to groan louder . . . .. Finally . . . . totally exhausted . . . . she let out a piercing scream . . . . She shouted . . . . : "OK, OK, you smug bastard, I can't parallel park . . . .You do it . . . . !!"